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What Are OKLCH Colors?

https://jakub.kr/components/oklch-colors
61•tontonius•49m ago•18 comments

Bro, ban me at the IP level if you don't like me

https://boston.conman.org/2025/08/21.1
168•classichasclass•2h ago•70 comments

Git-Annex

https://git-annex.branchable.com/
64•keepamovin•3h ago•15 comments

MCP Gateway and Registry

https://github.com/IBM/mcp-context-forge
21•nikhilk218•1h ago•5 comments

Busy beaver hunters reach numbers that overwhelm ordinary math

https://www.quantamagazine.org/busy-beaver-hunters-reach-numbers-that-overwhelm-ordinary-math-202...
103•defrost•2d ago•26 comments

Show HN: Sping – An HTTP/TCP latency tool that's easy on the eye

https://dseltzer.gitlab.io/sping/docs/
106•zorlack•7h ago•8 comments

In-Memory Filesystems in Rust

https://andre.arko.net/2025/08/18/in-memory-filesystems-in-rust/
19•ingve•1d ago•6 comments

From Hackathon to YC

https://www.producthunt.com/p/april-yc-s25/from-hackathon-to-yc
32•rmason•9h ago•15 comments

The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

https://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf
44•oliverkwebb•6h ago•7 comments

We put a coding agent in a while loop

https://github.com/repomirrorhq/repomirror/blob/main/repomirror.md
206•sfarshid•15h ago•134 comments

Is 4chan the perfect Pirate Bay poster child to justify wider UK site-blocking?

https://torrentfreak.com/uk-govt-finds-ideal-pirate-bay-poster-boy-to-sell-blocking-of-non-pirate...
229•gloxkiqcza•14h ago•260 comments

YouTube used AI to edit videos without telling users

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20250822-youtube-is-using-ai-to-edit-videos-without-permission
36•jakub_g•20h ago•16 comments

The two versions of Parquet

https://www.jeronimo.dev/the-two-versions-of-parquet/
165•tanelpoder•3d ago•34 comments

A bubble that knows it's a bubble

https://craigmccaskill.com/ai-bubble-history
55•craigmccaskill•9h ago•21 comments

Burner Phone 101

https://rebeccawilliams.info/burner-phone-101/
339•CharlesW•4d ago•138 comments

Trees on city streets cope with drought by drinking from leaky pipes

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2487804-trees-on-city-streets-cope-with-drought-by-drinking-...
172•bookofjoe•2d ago•88 comments

Making games in Go: 3 months without LLMs vs. 3 days with LLMs

https://marianogappa.github.io/software/2025/08/24/i-made-two-card-games-in-go/
285•maloga•16h ago•192 comments

A Brilliant and Nearby One-off Fast Radio Burst Localized to 13 pc Precision

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/adf62f
67•gnabgib•11h ago•9 comments

Cloudflare incident on August 21, 2025

https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-incident-on-august-21-2025/
165•achalshah•3d ago•33 comments

Everything I know about good API design

https://www.seangoedecke.com/good-api-design/
264•ahamez•12h ago•98 comments

Ghrc.io appears to be malicious

https://bmitch.net/blog/2025-08-22-ghrc-appears-malicious/
314•todsacerdoti•7h ago•47 comments

Uncle Sam shouldn't own Intel stock

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/uncle-sam-shouldnt-own-intel-stock-ccd6986d
143•aspenmayer•9h ago•141 comments

Show HN: Clearcam – Add AI object detection to your IP CCTV cameras

https://github.com/roryclear/clearcam
176•roryclear•19h ago•48 comments

Claim: GPT-5-pro can prove new interesting mathematics

https://twitter.com/SebastienBubeck/status/1958198661139009862
146•marcuschong•4d ago•95 comments

Show HN: I Built a XSLT Blog Framework

https://vgr.land/content/posts/20250821.xml
50•vgr-land•13h ago•21 comments

Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

https://www.macrumors.com/2025/08/21/y-combinator-epic-games-amicus-brief/
158•greenburger•3d ago•152 comments

Halt and Catch Fire Syllabus (2021)

https://bits.ashleyblewer.com/halt-and-catch-fire-syllabus/
139•Kye•11h ago•48 comments

Stepanov's biggest blunder? The curious case of adjacent difference

https://mmapped.blog/posts/43-stepanovs-biggest-blunder
51•signa11•3d ago•11 comments

Comet AI browser can get prompt injected from any site, drain your bank account

https://twitter.com/zack_overflow/status/1959308058200551721
531•helloplanets•16h ago•184 comments

Bash Strict Mode (2014)

http://redsymbol.net/articles/unofficial-bash-strict-mode/
39•dcminter•2d ago•38 comments
Open in hackernews

Why is choral music harder to appreciate?

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2025/08/why-is-choral-music-harder-to-appreciate.html
28•surprisetalk•2d ago

Comments

rectang•2h ago
Carmina Burana, which used to be ubiquitous in video games and medieval movies, says it ain’t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aQXehmVDLc (trad)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE01DAATf6s (remix)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p4qcbzKWeY (deodorant ad)

samplatt•2h ago
I mean it's backed up by some of the most bombastic drums and strings that the entire era produced, but sure, it's notable.

Even the softer track "Ecce Gratum" still has regular organ interludes to set the tone.

recallingmemory•2h ago
"Miserere mei, Deus" is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard and I'm not religious nor do I understand the language it's written in. I've never thought of those as prerequisites to enjoying a piece of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwFXR5ett6U

arduanika•1h ago
A classic! The Allegri Miserere gets used whenever a movie soundtrack needs some sacred choral music. That floating soprano line between the sections is something else.
ics•1h ago
John Browne (1453-1490) - O Regina Mundi Clara (Tallis Scholars Ensemble)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y28FW6JBd7w

noddybear•2h ago
"Spem in Alium" is the most beautiful piece of music in existence for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT-ZAAi4UQQ

At 40 distinct melodies, it is certainly the 'grandest' piece in early English church music.

arduanika•1h ago
Yes! I had a chance to sing in this once.

But it definitely suffers from every one of the reasons for obscurity listed in TFA, on steroids.

dhosek•1h ago
As I recently commented on Bluesky, I want to write a contemporary choral setting of Spem in Alium (hope in another) but write the title Spem in Allium (hope in garlic) and see if it can make it to publication before anyone notices).
ludston•2h ago
It seems like the author is referring specifically to the style of choral music found in churches, although the same thing can be said about other choral genres like barbershop.

However, Backstreet Boys or many of the Korean idol groups do music that could be classified as choral that's highly accessible.

The main difference is drums. Music without drums or some rhythmic equivalent is less accessible.

The other main difference is not in accessibility, but economics. Is cheaper and easier to make a band with only one featured vocalist, so most professional bands do this. It's what people hear, and therefore what they identify with and therefore what they go out of their way to listen to.

dhosek•1h ago
There is, actually, a not insignificant repertoire of secular choral music although it’s lost a lot of its popularity. The liner notes for one collection of Aaron Copland’s music made a comment about how it was strange that Copland had written very little choral music given its indigenous popularity in the US in the first half of the twentieth century.

But yes, solo vocalists have been the primary mode of vocal music in English-speaking culture which presented a challenge in creating post-Vatican II liturgical music which was intended to echo the local culture (something that Dennis Day noted in his book, Why Catholics Can’t Sing). Folk and rock both tend not to work well as a format for congregational music although the former works better in my opinion. Certainly, I don’t buy Day’s argument that the obvious liturgical choice is old-school hymnody (I lean more towards incorporating more of Black gospel instead).

I wouldn’t call the various harmony-based groups like Backstreet Boys or K-Pop as choral music. What makes choral music choral is the fact that there are multiple voices singing each part in the piece.

djmips•38m ago
What about groups like the aforementioned Pentatonix and The Harvard Opportunes. They are quite literally multiple voices singing each part in the piece.
nikodotio•1h ago
On the drums: Not entirely, I find folk tradition choral music (without drums) wonderful, but also struggle with classical and church choral.
opium_tea•47m ago
what styles are contained in folk tradition choral music? I know of sacred harp singing which can be really spectacular.
franch•11m ago
In our Alpine region there is a long tradition of male choruses singing folk songs about mountain life and tales through rich harmonizations of pieces. An example from coro SAT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQZyZggh3SQ
dietrichepp•2h ago
I listen to a fair amount of choral music, from plainchant and organum up through modern and contemporary works. I think the short answer is missing, which is that most choral music just isn’t that exciting.

The Wikipedia article for the Motet has an interesting quote which echoes the sentiment here:

> [the motet is] not to be celebrated in the presence of common people, because they do not notice its subtlety, nor are they delighted in hearing it, but in the presence of the educated and of those who are seeking out subtleties in the arts.

This quote is attributed to Johannes de Grocheio in the 1200s! That means that people have been saying that choral music is hard to appreciate for more than seven hundred years.

bobbiechen•1h ago
I totally agree - I've sung in a few choirs myself but even I myself hesitate to attend choral events sometimes. It takes effort to appreciate the depth involved, even with modern choral music (think Eric Whitacre) or even gospel choir, compared to other forms of entertainment.

I also agree with the article that understanding the blend of voices is best "when you are singing in the midst of the action" rather than on a recording. But also, that means it's hard to gain familiarity with specific songs or genre-specific styles, which is another barrier to entry.

dhosek•1h ago
I think there’s a big issue with the recording style used for choral music. It tends to be recorded with a far mic in an echoey room which gives the experience of hearing it in church, but I think close micing the individual sections would give more of a sense of being in the choir and really help make everything more distinct. I don’t know any choral music recorded this way, but I know that one of Tony Banks’ (keyboard player for Genesis) orchestral suites was recorded this way which I think worked well.
simonask•1h ago
There's lots of choir music recorded this way. Check out Caroline Shaw's "Partita for 8 voices", for example.
Aidevah•1h ago
A recent recording of Obrecht masses had close mic, recorded in a studio usually used for pop music with very little echo, with one voice per part [1]. The effect really is quite startling. The last time choral music was recorded like this was (coincidentally another Obrecht mass) more than 30 years ago [2].

I think a lot of vocal music written around 1500 would benefit from this approach. It has been remarked that this is really a sort of sacred chamber music rather than music requiring a huge choir. The music moves too fast and it's very difficult for a big choir in a very resonant space to do Obrecht, Josquin and friends full justice.

[1] https://hyperion.lnk.to/cda68460 [2] https://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/dvg102.htm

haberman•27m ago
I completely agree that one-per-part singing really brings out the beauty in 16th century choral music. I sing in a choir that specializes in music of this period, and while our live performances usually use two singers per part to fill a room, our recordings are more often one-per-part with relatively close micing.

We do record in churches because we like the reverb, so it's not quite the dry studio sound you're describing, but we do prioritize a clear sound stage where all of the parts can be clearly heard.

We've found that a Blumlein mic configuration (two figure-8 pattern microphones placed at a 90 degree angle from each other) helps to create this clarity of texture, where all the parts can be heard individually across the stereo image, especially when listening with headphones. I can't take credit for this idea though: we learned it from the sound engineer who records the Tallis Scholars, who told us that they record in this configuration.

Here are a couple examples of tracks recorded using this style:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZgo2Z17nNQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r0iyq7AvaU

omnicognate•23m ago
Please, please, please do this! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45011044

I do realise that's a monumental undertaking, though :-D

haberman•10m ago
Ha, I don't know much about Dolby Atmos and spacial placement. But from prior experience I'm somewhat skeptical about what this kind of clever DSP can do for choral music.

For example, when I learned about convolution reverb, and how it should theoretically be able to simulate the unique reverb pattern of any room, I was initially excited about the possibilities. But after trying it I was underwhelmed.

That said, I'm open to being convinced. If you know of any compelling demos of this kind of spatial placement, I'd be interested to see.

I had not heard of Nonsuch Palace, despite having a passing interest in Henry VIII and certainly a large interest in Tallis! Is it thought that Spem was performed there?

omnicognate•27m ago
I want a recording of Spem in Alium done with a mic per singer, placed spatially using Dolby Atmos and arranged as they might have been in the octagonal banqueting hall of Nonsuch Palace: surrounding the audience (in the round) and with four of the eight choirs up on balconies.

(Say what you want about "spatial audio" on earphones - if you're lucky enough to have a good home cinema separates system it's awesome, and this would be the ultimate application for it IMO.)

omnicognate•44m ago
I don't really know what's meant by "exciting" here, but there's plenty of choral music that's upbeat, joyful and rhythmical. For me the most enjoyable form of musical "excitement" is frisson, which choral music has in great abundance. Nothing can give you goosebumps like a good choir.

I disagree with the premise. I don't think there's anything inherently "harder to appreciate" about choral music. It's just a personal, and no doubt culturally influenced, preference. I struggle to enjoy opera and hip-hop, but that's on me. I don't go around writing articles about how hard they are to appreciate.

djmips•1h ago
I love choral music. Maybe partially due to growing up going to church. I love hearing it in modern settings like the video games.

It feels like Enya falls squarely into the 'choral' sound despite them being 'solo'. (lots of overdubs I imagine)

And then there's African choir. Popular example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AGtd2-jv0U

Almondsetat•1h ago
It's not harder to appreciate. Opera has swept the floor regarding popular sung music from the 1700s onwards, and has created quite a barren landscape. We have to thank England and Germany for having kept the repertoire alive enough during the last 3 centuries. It's merely a cultural thing.
omnicognate•1h ago
Yeah, I reject the premise. My enjoyment of choral music predates and led to my participation in it, not the other way round. The key moment was getting a set of Tallis Scholars CDs as a kid. I fell in love as soon as I pressed play.

There's nothing "harder to appreciate" about a group of voices vs any other way of making music.

antognini•1h ago
One thing that stands out to me about choral music is how much smoother it makes dissonance sound. Eric Whitacre is one of the most popular living composers of choral music and he routinely uses huge tone clusters in his works. When sung by a choir, his pieces sound dreamy and atmospheric, but if you were to play them on the piano they would be much more challenging to listen to. I have a theory that choral music tends to be sidelined by more "serious" classical music for precisely this reason.

As an addendum, for anyone interested in choral music I highly recommend listening to Caroline Shaw. She is among the most interesting new voices in the genre. Her piece Partita for 8 Voices [1] won the Pulitzer Prize a few years back. For a somewhat more accessible piece I also really like Its Motion Keeps [2].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDVMtnaB28E

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT1PqR97urc

lucyjojo•1h ago
dissonance is a function of the instrument (and the notes -- and other stuff), not only the notes.

so notes that are dissonant on piano are not necessarily dissonant with human voices.

a big reason for that is apparently overtone matching (and i guess that because of formants/resonant cavities of the human vocal tract, there must be a lot of matching overtones in more cases, maybe? i wonder if there is a youtube vid about that, there must be...)

lucyjojo•1h ago
tldr:

big chances it does not make dissonance "smoother", but that the sound is less dissonant in the first place.

kepeko•1h ago
I wonder if human singer instinctively chooses another note, that is not 100% same frequency as in piano. You know, there are always imperfections in piano tuning even if it's done in today's standard way(all intervals are not perfect). I'm not a piano tuner but this is my understanding. Possibly trained singers can sing in a better harmony somewhere where piano gets it (very) slightly wrong?
simonask•1h ago
It's not (just) instinctive. Good choral singers adjust their tuning purposefully to match the overtones of the harmony.

For example, if you are on the fifth in the chord, you adjust the tone slightly up. If you are on the major third, slightly down. Minor third, slightly up. These rules are consciously applied by choral singers, and are even genre-defining for things like barbershop.

bubblyworld•59m ago
I suspect there's something to this. I find with guitar you can do something similar if you tune by ear, getting the strings to resonate with each other rather than perfectly matching a tuner. To my ears it produces a richer sound.
1123581321•1h ago
My coworker from years ago said it best. I’d had us listening to King’s College, Giovanni Gabrielli, etc. during Christmas. One day the station was switched to contemporary Christmas. My coworker said, “I’m really sorry, I tried to like it, but I’ll go insane if we have one more day of music without a beat.”
leviathant•1h ago
My wife is a successful Australian-American choral composer, and riding shotgun as her career has taken off, if I were to make a few observations right before I turn in for the night:

"Choral music is harder to appreciate than say either symphonies or chamber music" - unlike orchestras and smaller string ensembles, choirs are champions of new music. The end of the article cites opera's growing popularity (an idea I'm not sure I buy into) but opera companies are famously stuck in rep from 100-300 year old, because that's what the donor class wants to hear.

The perspective painted by this article isn't all that different from the boomer who thinks there hasn't been good rock n' roll since the Beatles and the Stones. It's out there, all around you - you're just not looking in the right places. Choir music has a built-in network effect; when one choir sings a piece that goes over well, often times there are members who are in one or two other choirs, or are even choir directors themselves. There's a very dynamic scene, not even touching on religious choirs. And to people who think it's not that exciting, again I think you might just not be going to the right concerts. I've seen a choir reduce an entire audience to tears, and I've heard choral pieces that send the hair up on the back of my neck. I say this as someone who normally listens to Nine Inch Nails, Fever Ray, Queens of the Stone Age, Autechre, Aphex Twin... Some of my favorite choral works have very catchy rhythms, others border on math rock.

Choral organizations could do with better marketing; it's hard to compete in today's media landscape. One of my favorite groups, the St Louis Chamber Chorus, performs new and old works, and makes it a point to perform in unique spaces all around the St Louis area - part of the attraction to a concert is getting to go into that church you've always wondered about, or an old theater that's been brought back to life by the community. The Mid-Columbia Master Singers have performed in the Hanford B reactor site in the Tri-Cities area of Washington state. Or even seeing The King's Singers perform with Voces8 in an old mainstay like Royal Albert Hall, it's a sensory experience that can't be replicated.

And again, it's a community thing. You meet other people who appreciate this stuff when you go to the concerts and stay for the receptions. If you feel like you could make things better, become a subscriber, a major donor, join the board of one of these things. It's incredibly rewarding.

Back to marketing: outside of a few long-running groups like Chanticleer, Cantus, Voces8, the King's Singers, and so on, it's really challenging to build a brand around choral music. The industry's just not there for it. But seek out local choral concerts, talk to some strangers there, and you'll find a whole ecosystem that operates is more typically consumed live and in person, than it is via recording.

Going back to the title of the article, I suppose that does make it harder to appreciate than something you've heard in movie trailers and can stream from Spotify.

p0w3n3d•59m ago
For choral music listeners I strongly recommend works of contemporary Polish composers Paweł Bębenek and Piotr Pałka. Some of their pieces are really innovative I'd say, without breaking the classics rules. Also their works has recently been translated quite often to other languages
ipsum2•57m ago
Acapella is quite popular, with lots of different groups hitting >10 million views on YouTube. Pentatonix is the obvious example, but even relatively 'unknown' groups (eg university acapella) get many listens.
vintermann•41m ago
I think it's a lot about economics, too. Choirs of any significant size have to be amateur. It's hard enough to do a 4 person band playing popular music full-time, with 20-30 people performing more niche music it just doesn't happen.

Small group a capella is slightly more viable, but it's very "amateur coded": even very good a capella groups perform a lot of covers, and rarely stick with one genre. They perform whatever they want, which is often also things with commercial appeal, but isn't ideal for long-term musical identity building.

Take Rajaton for instance. Extremely technically brilliant, but their own compositions are a relatively small part of their repertoire (and still more than most a capella groups!). Pop music covers and Christmas music are obviously a big part of what makes them commercially viable, in addition they perform commissioned work from acknowledged choral composers (Mia Marakoff, Michael McGlynn). When they do the occasional album with good stylistic coherence and their own compositions (like 2016 Salaisuus) it doesn't look like a commerical success.

ginko•26m ago
>I think it's a lot about economics, too. Choirs of any significant size have to be amateur. It's hard enough to do a 4 person band playing popular music full-time, with 20-30 people performing more niche music it just doesn't happen.

That really depends where you live. In Vienna you definitely get all-professional choirs of that size for instance.

8bitsrule•40m ago
Some music is only 'exciting' for performers ... and that's OK! Watch a performance of a late Schubert string quintet or Beethoven string quartet for example ... see how much fun they're having. My high-school chorus teacher put together a group to sing madrigals; it sure was fun, and whether there was an audience made no matter.
zoeey•39m ago
I once heard a live a cappella performance in a church, and the moment the voices began, it felt like the whole space wrapped around me in silence. That was when I really understood the beauty of choral music. It is not just about the melody but about how the sound blends in the room and resonates with the air. It is something you simply cannot feel through headphones.
kazinator•36m ago
The author misses this:

Choral music is boring because the tempos tend to be slow. The instruments used are generally incapable of fast passages in which notes have a sharp, clear attack. Not just fast passages, but interesting passages. Choral melodies tend to be uninteresting, because they have to be singable. If there are too many awkward leaps, only some rare genius with a perfect ear and vocal control can pull it off; yet the same melody would be nothing to a violinist, pianist, or flutist, at twice the tempo, who would have all the notes crisply articulated with good intonation and a quick attack.

In a nutshell, some people like their Western Art music when it shreds.

Otherwise, not so much.

Which is not to say that vocals as such are unexciting; far from it. The problem is that choral works often just have too many people singing. Exciting vocals mainly have one vocalist, or at most a very small number, doing something powerful with their voices, not just hitting the notes in a score.

I'd rather listen to a good barbershop quartet than some Baroque chorale---even if it's by Bach! However, if the latter were reduced to an ensemble of just four people, it could work a lot better.

E.g. this actually sound pretty cool: five ladies singing the Toccata and Fugue in Dm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKI9VThPB4w

Much more fun than any random Bach chorale, sorry J. S.

But still, only to a point. Though they are hitting the notes and the harmonies are crisp, there is a lot of portamento (gliding from note to note). The attack of an instrument isn't there.

In terms of vocal power, it's a joke compared to swing, blues, rock.

heihieih•26m ago
Some are amazing, others are just bland. I don't sing in chorus very often; it's not the type of music I like.
agys•17m ago
One of my favorite is “Deo gratias” by Johannes Ockeghem: a 36 parts canon!

The textures emerging from the the overlapping voices is just amazing…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZJQMEa9_2I