F-35: "Hold my beer."
I understand that the manufacturing and testing was a nightmare, with the need to redesign multiple subsystems.
As far as credible 5th generation strike fighters go, that's a pretty cheap per-squadron price tag. My bigger gripe is with the "Big Bomb Diplomacy" tactics that require such a platform, but we'd end up wanting one either way if a fight with China is in the cards.
I personally would consider the total cost of dropping two atomic bombs much higher, for hopefully obvious reasons.
EDIT: Although, per the article, I might have been wrong about that:
> The loss of life was shocking. The B-29 raid on Tokyo on the night of 9 March 1945 is thought to have killed as many as 100,000 people, making it more destructive than either of the atomic bombs that were to follow.
Fascinating bit of history though, thank you for sharing.
I'm not a historian but I've always read that the Japanese government famously did not intend to surrender despite being cornered.
They had some operations scheduled for October 1945—they surrendered 1 month before due to the bombs.
As in, Kamikazis because ordered, honour in death, or killing yourself with your own sword. Not really a culture of capitulation. Most of their cities were already firebombed, as you elude to, some more than once, yet there was still no surrender.
Without surrender, a country isn't really done. Leave it be, and they'll arm and rebuild, still at war with you. Invade, and your troops die, for a standing army still existed. Japan also had colonies, islands, resources.
And of course without surrender, even if you occupy, now you have insurgents.
It's hard to view the world through the eyes of even 80 years ago.
War weary, endless soldiers lost already, an unsurrendering Japan, and a way to put an end to it...
The massive bombing of Japan was a grinding war of attrition that has well-understood limitations and challenges. Military leaders in Japan were perfectly capable of understanding what those campaigns couldn't do, so it came down to a willingness to accept the losses to maintain strategic optionality, which they clearly were.
Most of the limitations of strategic bombing campaigns do not apply to nuclear weapons, which is something the Japanese military leadership also understood, though the scope of capability was uncertain (which also probably helped). If the US switched to nuclear weapons instead of conventional bombing campaigns, which was the risk Japanese military leaders had to consider, it takes most of the strategic optionality off the table at which point there is little to gain by continuing.
So they chose to end it.
There's a fair amount of detail and references in those books if one wishes to dig into it.
(I say they are "history" books as opposed to "activist" books. The latter are not worth reading.)
Some material I've seen claimed that the Japanese leadership didn't know it was a nuclear bomb. The Japanese knew immediately it was nuclear bomb, because they had a nuclear bomb development program themselves.
"Furthermore, the enemy has begun to employ a new and cruel bomb, causing immense and indiscriminate destruction, the extent of which is beyond all estimation."
Japan had no idea how many bombs we had and part of the strategy of using them in quick succession was to give the perception that we hod more than we did. It seems like Tokyo was going to be the next target:
Truman had ordered a halt to atomic bombings on 10 August, upon receiving news that another bomb would be ready for use against Japan in about a week. He told his cabinet that he could not stand the thought of killing "all those kids". By 14 August, however, Truman remarked "sadly" to the British ambassador that "he now had no alternative but to order an atomic bomb dropped on Tokyo", as some of his military staff had been advocating.
Yeah, it was in an activist's writings someone was using as a cite to me. Tells for an activist book:
1. hyperbolic language
2. no discussion of alternative explanations
3. mind reading - "surely so-and-so must have understood that..." and "so-and-so's reason must have been (something nefarious)"
One can argue about the increased cost in terms of lives if the bombs weren’t used, but my understanding is that by that time, we’re talking about shortening the war by maybe months, but certainly not years.
(*Worth noting that in the final terms, the Japanese did keep their emperor, but the US was demanding an unconditional surrender as a matter of principle.)
By whom? In actuality, both the US and Japan were planning for a long campaign on the Japanese home islands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall. The Japanese intended to prolong fighting as much as possible to force the US to abandon the invasion because of mounting costs and casualties.
Even the night before the surrender, some among the Japanese military attempted a coup to prevent it and continue the war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident
The US manufactured millions of purple hearts in anticipation of an amphibious invasion.
To this day those are the purple hearts used.
Nuclear weapons saved millions of lives.
And the early bombs were merely efficient ways to level a city. 1 B-29 rather than a few hundred. 16 sq miles of Tokyo got burned down in one night, for example.
"We have considered deeply the general trends of the world and the current situation of the Empire, and We have decided to take extraordinary measures to bring the current state of affairs to an end. We hereby inform Our loyal and devoted subjects."
...
"Furthermore, the enemy has begun to employ a new and cruel bomb, causing immense and indiscriminate destruction, the extent of which is beyond all estimation. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in the ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but it would also lead to the total extinction of human civilization."
However there were was a major faction that did not want to surrender and had conspired and committed a coup d'état to prevent it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident
There were 76,000-84,000 allied casualties and 105,000-110,000 Japanese. The civilian death toll was 40,000-150,000.
Claiming that lives were saved by bombing cities with nuclear weapons is always going to be a hard one to prove and morally dubious, but it might also be correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOX-2d9qLec
The B-29 also had ECM detectors and transmitters, so they could block enemy radar signals.
For a sense of what air to air gunnery is like without computer assistance, see the corresponding training film for B-17 gunners. [2].
[1] https://archive.org/details/19584-army-air-forces-gunnery-in...
A few months ago I took an Appleseed rifle skills course. It's amazing what goes inyo "just" hitting a static target from a static position at 25 yards with soft time constraints. It's amazing what goes into hitting a moving target from a moving plane in a few seconds.
It's an interesting feeling to stand by a beautiful, poised, marvelously-engineered mass death machine. It doesn't look scary at all, yet that silhouette must have been as terrifying in its prime as the B-2 is now.
Any European today still wonders why Tesla workers in the US still cannot hold a screwdriver, producing widely worrying results and claiming that the product is a valid car.
I never could figure that one out either…
I wish trades here in New Zealand used them, rather than the ubiquitous and fairly dumb Ford Ranger. Other than towing capacity, I can’t see why Rangers are popular.
And it doesn't look like it will recover again:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas...
Other than that there are some people that have legitimate needs hard to cover with EU made vehicles, for instance larger pickups. Those are often imports, Toyota's, some Dodges, some GMs. Rarely Fords though, I don't remember when I last saw an F150 or an F250 here in NL, in Germany or Poland. The Dodge's are popular with landscaping crews here.
In '24 Tesla did very well here (NL), with close to 8% of the market. For '25 they'll be happy to have half of that. And I expect BYD to achieve parity or even to exceed Tesla for EVs. Ford is at 3.5% and Jeep at 0.5%. So in total, for NL including Tesla the USA represents about 12% of the market and next year more than likely less than 10% and if Trump keeps up his tariff bs it might be far lower than that.
Speaking for the UK at least, it's not like we were really getting US-originated models from Ford: it used to be the Mondeo or Fiesta but now it's the Kuga. Similarly GM (AKA Vauxhall/Opel, now Stellantis) pushed the Corsa/Astra and so on rather than, say, the Chevy Suburban.
A majority of them are made within Europe (if not necessarily the EU, between the UK and Turkey) so should avoid tariffs.
So there are some who buy US made cars, but why they would...
[0]: https://www.acea.auto/fact/fact-sheet-eu-us-vehicle-trade-20...
The gun technology, pressured hull, ... all were novel. They didn't know it was possible when they committed to building it.
The British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC) were desperate for new aircraft after the war. They would have bought Lockheed Constellations if they hadn't been pressured into rescuing the British aircraft manufacturing companies from financial obliteration, which had of course narrowly avoided direct obliteration from German bombing. Instead of buying new American aircraft, they converted British bombers like the Avro Lancaster into sub-par airliners and eventually brought the Bristol Britannia into service, which was a fine aircraft, just ten years too late.
The de Havilland Comet eventually made BOAC and British engineering competitive internationally again, but I think it would be improper to not give credit to American workers and designers for being the first to create such advanced aircraft as the Constellation which really did keep the Allied war effort going behind the scenes.
As for the Germans, they had rockets and all kinds of incredible experimental aircraft, but nothing quite like the USA when it came to high-altitude air freight.
This is apparently a picture of the B-29 "Its Hawg's Wild" mentioned in the article before its restoration and flight to the UK: https://i.imgur.com/9e26SKj.jpeg
Taken from this blog which has some pictures of the restoration project: https://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2015/08/b-29-its-hawg-wild-...
chasil•6h ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_of_the_Air
ChrisMarshallNY•5h ago
I believe that the 100th Bomb Group had the highest casualty rate of any unit in the entire war, on either side (except the Kamikaze squadrons, I expect).
panick21_•5h ago
The reason they adopted Kamikaze was that normal air-attacks were suicide but suicide with no results what so ever.
In Kamikaze the pilots had more freedom and often only attacked the outlining ships. And quite often they just bailed out, or faked engine problems and flew back.
In terms of the 'strategic' bombing in Europe, the US was just incredibly arrogant and didn't want to listen to the Brits who had already learned some lessons. The way they employed air-power was outright insane, suicidal and also completely and utterly ineffective.
It took smart people using internal politics to sideline the idiots to turn the strategy around and do something actually useful.
Spooky23•4h ago
The insanity of the bombing campaign is one, others include the defective torpedoes that plagued the Navy for the first couple of years and killed countless sailors and airmen, and the homicidal policy of shipping in replacements to frontline units that were decimated multiple times.
ChrisMarshallNY•4h ago
The big issue with WWI, seemed to be staggeringly incompetent generals. This appears to have been on all sides. Maybe the Americans were better, but that just may be because they didn’t have time to get bogged down. I heard that Pershing refused to follow British and French tactics.
I assume that this was because many generals were trained on Napoleonic-Era tactics, that didn’t do well, against machine guns and semiauto rifles.
tekla•4h ago
While there were some generals that were a bit too resistant to changing strategy when it might have seemed reasonable, the fact of the matter is, is that this was the 1910s.
Everyone was trying to solve the problem of trying to figure out how to fight, and no one could keep up with how fast warfare was changing. Armchair generals watching people die in almost real time from drone footage in Europe did not exist in 1915.
ChrisMarshallNY•4h ago
Maybe calling them “incompetent,” isn’t fair, but they made a shitton of terrible strategic and tactical blunders, that resulted in millions of casualties.
Why they made those decisions sounds like exactly what you’re talking about.
panick21_•3h ago
The reason we have this view of WW1 is that after WW1 in the 20s many normal people in the 20s started writing about the horrors of war and that combined with the strong anti-war sentiment lead to the view we have now. Claiming that generals like Haig was an incompetent butcher. The whole 'lions led by donkeys' myth.
However non of that is actually true. Or not anymore true then in any other war. For example, there is stark contrast to right after the war, where Haig was considered a hero and most soldiers in their post-WW1 writing liked him.
In terms of causality rates, WW1 isn't that special, high intensity combat in modern war isn't that different, from Crimea to WW2. If you have warfare at that level, even if you are successful, you have massive causalities. The Somme for example wasn't that different from the Normandy campaign in WW2.
These generals had to deal with armies of literally million of people and they didn't even have wireless communications. How do you command 500 men in a coordinated attack without communication?
The Americans had to go threw the same learning curve as the others, but they started right away fighting against an enemy that was mostly veterans. Americans could have learned better, but it also has to be said that Pershing by command from the president was not allowed to fully integrate his troupes with that of the French army.
> I assume that this was because many generals were trained on Napoleonic-Era tactics
This is complete and utter nonsense. Please stop spreading these myths. This all just Post-WW1 anti-war politics propaganda.
> against machine guns and semiauto rifles
This is again a myth. Semiauto rifles practically didn't exist in the beginning of WW1. And machine guns had existed for a while and were not that effective.
The big killer on the battle field is the fast shooting artillery. Massive innovations in that had happened in the 30 years before WW1.
ChrisMarshallNY•2h ago
> This is complete and utter nonsense. Please stop spreading these myths.
Which seems to be your goal, here.
Have a great day!
jleyank•3h ago