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Debian 13, Postgres, and the US time zones

https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2025/09/11/debtz/
80•move-on-by•5h ago

Comments

ggm•5h ago
Is there a problem with ISO3166 denoted information in general or is there a specific US issue here? I would think ISO code denoted tzdata was a public good in some sense.
evdubs•3h ago
You can see the zones that are deprecated at https://packages.debian.org/sid/all/tzdata-legacy/filelist
masklinn•1h ago
All the legacy time zones were moved out of the default zoneinfo install. It’s not a us-specific issue but the legacy US/ timezones remain in widespread use, and they stop working on Debian 13 ootb (possibly Ubuntu noble as well?).
pdw•1h ago
Are they in widespread use? They were deprecated in 1995.
ahoef•1h ago
I don't see conflict in those statements.
pixelesque•58m ago
Does anyone know why they are still in widespread use?

Config defaults somewhere still using them? Man page examples? Tutorials using them? Or just force of habit?

rtpg•42m ago
Some of this is surely just muscle memory or intertia as well. I remember random config values from when I was trying out linux boxes back in high school that I replicated into files that just don't get touched for decades afterwards.

When was the last time you rebuilt your company's postgres config from scratch?

mananaysiempre•56m ago
This has nothing to do with ISO 3166 at all. The tzdata database is the work of a single person, Arthur Olson, not a committee (or rather it was, from its birth in the 1980s until 2011 when a company decided to sue him for no reason).

And for most of its life it’s been an explicit policy that timezones are named by continent and representative population center, not by country, to avoid entangling it in territorial disputes and improve naming stability for historical data. The US/* (and Canada/*, etc.) names are deprecated and have been since 1995 (?), but apparently people were still using them because the deprecation wasn’t really apparent unless one was especially into reading release notes.

breakingcups•26m ago
Interesting, I hadn't heard about that frivolous lawsuit before: https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-wins-protection-time-...
evdubs•3h ago
I also ran into this using:

- Debian 13

- Interactive Brokers' Trader Workstation

- Racket's `gregor` date and time library

IBKR still sends the old, deprecated US/* timezones. As noted in the article, the solution is to `apt install tzdata-legacy`.

donalhunt•1h ago
What sort of monster are you by not defaulting to UTC on systems? (⊙_⊙') /s
poemxo•1h ago
I don't get how this is a snag, it's right there in the log.
JdeBP•1m ago
This does not trace things back far enough. The root is where IANA has long since segregated out a set of timezone file names into a "backward" collection:

* https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tzdb/backward

If one traces references, one finds this connected bug on Launchpad. Amusingly to anyone who has ever seen these sweeping timezone database changes over the years, Launchpad marked it as "This bug affects 1 person.".

* https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tzdata/+bug/200807...

The rules for the "backward" file are here:

* https://data.iana.org/time-zones/theory.html#naming

All of the US/* timezone names, such as US/Pacific here, have been backwards compatibility measures in place for the whole of the 21st century and some of the late 20th. The Olson database in the 1980s (mod.sources v08i085, comp.sources.unix v14i030) used these names. But the naming scheme changed somewhen in the 1990s to a continent/city and ocean/city form and backwards compatibility with the old names has been preserved ever since by the "backward" file.

* https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.solaris/c/ON_MPZxVdv0/...

Debian has moved into a non-depended-upon package a backwards compatibility measure that is as old as Debian itself.

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