frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

Hackers can steal 2FA codes and private messages from Android phones

https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/10/no-fix-yet-for-attack-that-lets-hackers-pluck-2fa-codes-from-android-phones/
61•sipofwater•3h ago

Comments

mouse_•2h ago
Would you buy a hammer that can't ever hurt your thumb? What implications would that have? Would that be a good hammer?

Bad opinion time that I hope will maybe at least be thought provoking: I would hope a malicious app I willingly installed will be able to behave maliciously. Our security bureaucracy is going to grow exponentially and people are still going to be stealing people's shit, because people need to be able to access their shit and people are dumb.

leakycap•2h ago
> requires no [Android] permissions

I think this is the part people are upset about

akerl_•2h ago
> Would you buy a hammer that can't ever hurt your thumb?

Yes.

elmerfud•2h ago
I believe those hammers are made by Nerf. Now go build a house with one.
rootusrootus•1h ago
There was a time when we would have said something similar for table saws that cannot cut off your finger. Might be a little harder to pull off the trick with a hammer, but it just seems like another engineering problem. And it would make for a very expensive hammer.
elmerfud•29m ago
It probably wouldn't be classified as a hammer anymore. You're comparing apples and oranges. Now when you show me the manual hand saw that can avoid cutting off your fingers you'll have an accurate comparison.

Because we're not comparing air nailers or electric nail guns or screw guns. It was about a hammer.

Your comparison is so ridiculous because the table saw did not obsolete any other kind of saw. It was only a new type of saw that allowed for some types of sawing to be done much easier.

TZubiri•1h ago
Would you buy an electric saw that cannot damage your fingers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQu3ccfl7Ow

Or you would yell at a cloud?

elmerfud•27m ago
Everybody knows about saw stop. But in what way does a table saw compare with a hammer? If you were comparing it to an air nailer, or an electric nail gun, or an electric screw gun, which all can have safety features that require certain things to be met before it will fire then you have a comparison.

If you want to compare the hammer to something that saws you would compare it to a handsaw. Show me the hand saw that cannot damage your fingers.

You must think you're very smart but I don't think you've done any manual labor in your life. Because the table saw never obsoleted any other type of existing saw. It was simply a new tool that enhanced the ability to do certain types of sawing. The more you limit a function of something the easier it is to put guardrails around it. That was the original poster's point. You can limit Android to the point that it is nearly useless or useless only for the most basic of tasks but then you remove the power of it but you do not remove the need for all of the other tasks.

Table saws with saw stop still necessitate hand saws in some circumstances. Power nailers that have safety features that prevent their discharge and unsafe ways do not obsolete hammers.

TZubiri•1h ago
While I appreciate the sentiment of fighting against oversecure features. This is a great security feature. The Windows OS model started development in the 90s, before the internet or even malware was popular. Android started development around 2010 and was able to provide a security design that contemplated risks of malware and internet.

In Windows installing malware compromises other applications, while in Android, your other apps are safe. In this news, this security mechanism fails. To denounce that the mechanism is completely useless is quite stupid, you just outed yourself as someone who doesn't have any security responsibilities and shouldn't have.

shkkmo•1h ago
> Would that be a good hammer?

They're called rubber mallets and they are useful in a number of situations where you want to

> I would hope a malicious app I willingly installed will be able to behave maliciously.

You should be able to install an app that has continuous access to your screen but that doesn't mean that continuous access to your screen is something you should have to grant to every piece of software that runs on your computer.

gdulli•1h ago
You can hurt your thumb with a rubber mallet. Maybe the better metaphor would be kids' safety scissors which I guess represents the iPhone, but I'd still rather go with the Android (regular scissors) because I'm an adult and I'll take responsibility for the risks of using the more powerful tool.
akerl_•1h ago
Why are you speaking like having a secure device and a powerful device are exclusive options?
timothyduong•52m ago
I think one can still build a product that has a level of guard rails without impacting usability.

I also think iOS is more of an opinionated 'set of shears'. E.g. 'Right Hand only Scissors made from proprietary parts, made to only cut objects that 80% of scissor users need to cut' if we were to go down the road of analogies.

Funnily enough Google Android is removing the ability for unsigned non-adb APKs. I would suggest your 'regular' scissors will be slightly bluntened in the upcoming Android 16 OS release.

gnabgib•2h ago
> Requires a victim to first install a malicious app on an Android phone or tablet

As Raymond Chen/Old New Thing likes to say this rather requires being on the other side of this airtight hatchway. You can allow apps to do things on your device.

ranger_danger•2h ago
https://0x0.st/XJZT.jpg
0cf8612b2e1e•2h ago
That the app does not require permissions is the notable bit here. I do not know the mobile system, but I thought apps were supposed to be firewalled from each other unless given explicit grants.

The obvious joke, how long has Facebook been using this exploit?

OgsyedIE•1h ago
Several preinstalled bloatware stores such as Galaxy Store, Moto apps and so forth will default to opt-in to automatically installing 'recommended apps and games' - essentially spyware garbage they get kickbacks from - in the background, plus several flagship phones now come with Temu preinstalled.

The 90% of non technically-savvy Android users are 100% exposed to the OP exploit.

AmbroseBierce•1h ago
The app needs to be opened by the user for the exploit to work, as seen in the video the researchers published, so the surface attack is big but not that big.
rkagerer•27m ago
I have definitely opened the wrong app by accident on a smartphone - super easy to tap the wrong thing in a variety of situations (grasping at an awkward angle to snap a photo, pocket taps, etc).
ActorNightly•2h ago
In other news, there are substances in the household that are so dangerous that it can can kill you.

First it requires the user take buckets of ammonia and bleach and mix them together.

TZubiri•1h ago
To be fair, it's more like, you can buy a bottle of ammonia, and then get poisoned by eating an apple.
_ink_•2h ago
It can happen quickly. The app itself might be legit, but it may be based in a SDK which is either malicious or compromised.
Brybry•1h ago
And there are a lot of automatically installed junk apps on most phones. And every OTA update seems to add more.
AmbroseBierce•1h ago
It also requires that whatever information the attacker is looking for has been displayed on the screen, so for example my banking app (like most banking apps I guess) masks my 4 digit passcode with asterisks so it is likely safe from this specific attack

PD: I just checked and it also doesn't change the color of the pressed keys or any other visual feedback that an attacker might use.

TZubiri•1h ago
> The new attack, named Pixnapping by the team of academic researchers who devised it, requires a victim to first install a malicious app on an Android phone or tablet.

I think it speaks about the security of Android that this makes the news. Coming from Windows, Android always felt as a MUCH more secure Operating System, not just a similar quality Operating System with touch controls and support for smaller hardware.

dloy•2h ago
And they can’t with iPhones?
SchemaLoad•1h ago
iOS doesn't let apps silently screen record.
shkkmo•1h ago
How are you sure? This isn't abusing some poorly secured screenshot API, this is a timing attack on the GPU rendering process and impacts a wide range of GPUs.
lostmsu•1h ago
Neither does Android. This is a timing attack on rendering.
i386•1h ago
Android supremacy at its finest. I would never recommend a family member buying one. The history of this kind of thing is long and keeps continuing to happen.
ChrisArchitect•1h ago
Source: https://www.pixnapping.com/
lostmsu•1h ago
TL;DR; This is a timing attack on rendering that allows capture of screen data.
hollow-moe•1h ago
Don't worry you won't be able to install the bad application in the first place thanks to the new ID backed app signature.
lll-o-lll•1h ago
This is a really interesting new side channel attack. One I had never considered before; it’s like rowhammer but for the screen. Clever. Also evil.

Clever and evil.

baobun•47m ago
There should be a new, stronger word for these kinds of attacks. Like clevevil, or clevil. Yes, pixnapping is clevil. We should strive for the opposite: livelc.
pimlottc•54m ago
I'm stuck on the part of the attack where the malicious app opens another app:

> 2. Attacker app opens Google Authenticator's main activity

> 3. Attacker app opens a stack of activities to include graphical operations on pixels displayed by Google Authenticator's main activity

Android allows apps to call other apps? While remaining in the foreground? How does that work? I don't think iOS allows this.

mercora•3m ago
Good question and I think one point missing here is that the attacker needs to draw over the application showing the pixels to be stolen. Apparently, this makes use of the fact that the rendering pipeline uses compression to update screen contents. It's not written how exactly but I imagine drawing a pixel that's already present takes less time then updating it to a new color or something in that line of thought. I guess this may also allow for some decent optimization to the time it takes to determine the contents by reducing the search space to known possible screen contents and further by checking incremental amounts, like each digit separately or similar. Anyways, as far as I know to draw over other applications you need to give permission, I think it's commonly used for accessibility apps. If true, the vulnerability might be a bit less concerning then if not.
aussieguy1234•47m ago
More accurate title: "There's a new trojan out for android. Like any trojan, it gives the attacker access to things they shouldn't have access to"
ufmace•12m ago
It's a cool and interesting type of attack, but I really don't care for the breathless clickbait headlines that are sourced to a few security researchers demonstrating an attack in a lab, that has already been patched against and has never been seen in the wild.
rkagerer•10m ago
Could this be mitigated by introducing some random timing jitter during rendering?
nh2•5m ago
Curious if the same technique would also work on Wayland, given one of its design goals is higher cross-app security compared to Xorg.

NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

https://github.com/karpathy/nanochat
902•huseyinkeles•11h ago•187 comments

DDoS Botnet Aisuru Blankets US ISPs in Record DDoS

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2025/10/ddos-botnet-aisuru-blankets-us-isps-in-record-ddos/
78•JumpCrisscross•3h ago•58 comments

Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/13/dutch-government-takes-control-of-chinese-owned-chipmaker-nexperi...
325•piskov•16h ago•254 comments

Sony PlayStation 2 fixing frenzy

https://retrohax.net/sony-playstation-2-fixing-frenzy/
59•ibobev•3h ago•24 comments

There are sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

https://satcom.sysnet.ucsd.edu/docs/dontlookup_ccs25_fullpaper.pdf
9•dweekly•1h ago•0 comments

First device based on 'optical thermodynamics' can route light without switches

https://phys.org/news/2025-10-device-based-optical-thermodynamics-route.html
116•rbanffy•5d ago•16 comments

Show HN: AI toy I worked on is in stores

https://www.walmart.com/ip/SANTA-SMAGICAL-PHONE/16364964771
79•Sean-Der•1d ago•77 comments

Show HN: SQLite Online – 11 years of solo development, 11K daily users

https://sqliteonline.com/
346•sqliteonline•14h ago•117 comments

Modern iOS Security Features – A Deep Dive into SPTM, TXM, and Exclaves

https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.09272
121•todsacerdoti•8h ago•2 comments

No science, no startups: The innovation engine we're switching off

https://steveblank.com/2025/10/13/no-science-no-startups-the-unseen-engine-were-switching-off/
301•chmaynard•13h ago•254 comments

JIT: So you want to be faster than an interpreter on modern CPUs

https://www.pinaraf.info/2025/10/jit-so-you-want-to-be-faster-than-an-interpreter-on-modern-cpus/
89•pinaraf•1d ago•18 comments

LLMs are getting better at character-level text manipulation

https://blog.burkert.me/posts/llm_evolution_character_manipulation/
53•curioussquirrel•7h ago•19 comments

StreamingVLM: Real-Time Understanding for Infinite Video Streams

https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.09608
14•badmonster•2h ago•0 comments

Why did containers happen?

https://buttondown.com/justincormack/archive/ignore-previous-directions-8-devopsdays/
67•todsacerdoti•15h ago•69 comments

Strudel REPL – a music live coding environment living in the browser

https://strudel.cc
109•birdculture•8h ago•18 comments

Smartphones and being present

https://herman.bearblog.dev/being-present/
204•articsputnik•12h ago•130 comments

Hackers can steal 2FA codes and private messages from Android phones

https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/10/no-fix-yet-for-attack-that-lets-hackers-pluck-2fa-codes-...
64•sipofwater•3h ago•41 comments

Abstraction, not syntax

https://ruudvanasseldonk.com/2025/abstraction-not-syntax
68•unripe_syntax•18h ago•35 comments

America is getting an AI gold rush instead of a factory boom

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/10/13/manufacturing-artificial-intelligence/
99•voxleone•12h ago•123 comments

JSON River – Parse JSON incrementally as it streams in

https://github.com/rictic/jsonriver
158•rickcarlino•5d ago•75 comments

Scaling request logging with ClickHouse, Kafka, and Vector

https://www.geocod.io/code-and-coordinates/2025-10-02-from-millions-to-billions/
110•mjwhansen•5d ago•17 comments

America's future could hinge on whether AI slightly disappoints

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/americas-future-could-hinge-on-whether
71•jxmorris12•9h ago•59 comments

Software update bricks some Jeep 4xe hybrids over the weekend

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/10/software-update-bricks-some-jeep-4xe-hybrids-over-the-weekend/
333•gloxkiqcza•12h ago•223 comments

Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer move

https://www.makeuseof.com/androids-sideloading-limits-are-anti-consumer-move-yet/
606•josephcsible•11h ago•404 comments

Legends of the games industry: Roger Dean

https://spillhistorie.no/2025/10/03/legends-of-the-games-industry-roger-dean/
93•thelok•12h ago•22 comments

Optery (YC W22) – Hiring Tech Lead with Node.js Experience (U.S. & Latin America)

https://www.optery.com/careers/
1•beyondd•9h ago

Root cause analysis? You're doing it wrong

https://entropicthoughts.com/root-cause-analysis-youre-doing-it-wrong
93•davedx•2d ago•68 comments

CRDT and SQLite: Local-First Value Synchronization

https://marcobambini.substack.com/p/the-secret-life-of-a-local-first
62•marcobambini•4d ago•12 comments

Uv overtakes pip in CI

https://wagtail.org/blog/uv-overtakes-pip-in-ci/
161•ThibWeb•1w ago•130 comments

American solar farms

https://tech.marksblogg.com/american-solar-farms.html
199•marklit•16h ago•254 comments