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Google demonstrates 'verifiable quantum advantage' with their Willow processor

https://blog.google/technology/research/quantum-echoes-willow-verifiable-quantum-advantage/
106•AbhishekParmar•1h ago•57 comments

Cryptographic Issues in Cloudflare's Circl FourQ Implementation (CVE-2025-8556)

https://www.botanica.software/blog/cryptographic-issues-in-cloudflares-circl-fourq-implementation
80•botanica_labs•2h ago•19 comments

Linux Capabilities Revisited

https://dfir.ch/posts/linux_capabilities/
76•Harvesterify•2h ago•12 comments

Designing software for things that rot

https://drobinin.com/posts/designing-software-for-things-that-rot/
73•valzevul•18h ago•8 comments

MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

https://github.com/minio/minio/issues/21647#issuecomment-3418675115
446•LexSiga•10h ago•268 comments

AI assistants misrepresent news content 45% of the time

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2025/new-ebu-research-ai-assistants-news-content
201•sohkamyung•2h ago•154 comments

The security paradox of local LLMs

https://quesma.com/blog/local-llms-security-paradox/
50•jakozaur•3h ago•36 comments

SourceFS: A 2h+ Android build becomes a 15m task with a virtual filesystem

https://www.source.dev/journal/sourcefs
48•cdesai•3h ago•16 comments

Die shots of as many CPUs and other interesting chips as possible

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Birdman86
132•uticus•4d ago•26 comments

Internet's biggest annoyance: Cookie laws should target browsers, not websites

https://nednex.com/en/the-internets-biggest-annoyance-why-cookie-laws-should-target-browsers-not-...
337•SweetSoftPillow•4h ago•396 comments

French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgkm2j0xelo
265•begueradj•10h ago•345 comments

Go subtleties

https://harrisoncramer.me/15-go-sublteties-you-may-not-already-know/
150•darccio•1w ago•104 comments

Tesla Recalls Almost 13,000 EVs over Risk of Battery Power Loss

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-10-22/tesla-recalls-almost-13-000-evs-over-risk-of-b...
136•zerosizedweasle•4h ago•115 comments

Infracost (YC W21) Hiring First Dev Advocate to Shift FinOps Left

https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/infracost/jobs/NzwUQ7c-senior-developer-advocate
1•akh•4h ago

Patina: a Rust implementation of UEFI firmware

https://github.com/OpenDevicePartnership/patina
66•hasheddan•1w ago•12 comments

Farming Hard Drives (2012)

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze_drive_farming/
12•floriangosse•6d ago•3 comments

Evaluating the Infinity Cache in AMD Strix Halo

https://chipsandcheese.com/p/evaluating-the-infinity-cache-in
121•zdw•12h ago•51 comments

Show HN: Cadence – A Guitar Theory App

https://cadenceguitar.com/
135•apizon•1w ago•29 comments

The Dragon Hatchling: The missing link between the transformer and brain models

https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.26507
111•thatxliner•3h ago•65 comments

Greg Newby, CEO of Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation, has died

https://www.pgdp.net/wiki/In_Memoriam/gbnewby
354•ron_k•7h ago•59 comments

Cigarette-smuggling balloons force closure of Lithuanian airport

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/22/cigarette-smuggling-balloons-force-closure-vilnius-...
49•n1b0m•3h ago•17 comments

Sequoia COO quit over Shaun Maguire's comments about Mamdani

https://www.ft.com/content/8e6de299-3eb6-4ba9-8037-266c55c02170
15•amrrs•51m ago•12 comments

Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

https://github.com/FarisZR/knocker
49•xlmnxp•7h ago•76 comments

LLMs can get "brain rot"

https://llm-brain-rot.github.io/
446•tamnd•1d ago•275 comments

Ghostly swamp will-O'-the-wisps may be explained by science

https://www.snexplores.org/article/swamp-gas-methane-will-o-wisp-chemistry
23•WaitWaitWha•1w ago•10 comments

Distributed Ray-Tracing

https://www.4rknova.com//blog/2019/02/24/distributed-raytracing
21•ibobev•5d ago•7 comments

Starcloud

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/starcloud/
129•jonbaer•5h ago•172 comments

Power over Ethernet (PoE) basics and beyond

https://www.edn.com/poe-basics-and-beyond-what-every-engineer-should-know/
217•voxadam•6d ago•170 comments

rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

https://github.com/raysan5/raylib/blob/master/src/external/rlsw.h
228•fschuett•19h ago•87 comments

Ask HN: Our AWS account got compromised after their outage

364•kinj28•1d ago•87 comments
Open in hackernews

AI assistants misrepresent news content 45% of the time

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2025/new-ebu-research-ai-assistants-news-content
197•sohkamyung•2h ago

Comments

Hikikomori•2h ago
Better or worse than Fox?
walkabout•2h ago
Relatedly, I wonder if we count misrepresenting a misleading news article such that it becomes more-accurate as misrepresenting news content…
more_corn•2h ago
Less consistently one sided and manipulative. I’d say better. Though fox will give you a more consistent narrative and worldview so if there’s value in that…
fallingfrog•2h ago
Yeah I don't know why people pay attention to those things, in terms of accuracy you might as well give your uncle 5 or 6 beers and tell him to just go off.
MangoToupe•2h ago
Now let's run this experiment against the editorial boards in newsrooms.

Obviously, AI isn't an improvement, but people who blindly trust the news have always been credulous rubes. It's just that the alternative is being completely ignorant of the worldviews of everyone around you.

Peer-reviewed science is as close as we can get to good consensus and there's a lot of reasons this doesn't work for reporting.

n4r9•2h ago
I guess the claim is not that rubes did not used to exist, but rather that technology is increasingly encouraging and streamlining rubism.
MangoToupe•2h ago
I agree with that assessment, or at least that this is indeed the claim.

But, technology also gave us the internet, and social media. Yes, both are used to propagate misinformation, but it also laid bare how bad traditional media was at both a) representing the world competently and b) representing the opinions and views of our neighbors. Manufacturing consent has never been so difficult (or, I suppose, so irrelevant to the actions of the states that claim to represent us).

intended•1h ago
Technology has been used to absolutely decimate the news media. Organizations like Fox have blazed the path forward for how news organizations succeed in the cable and later internet worlds.

You just give up on uneconomical efforts at accuracy and you sell narratives that work for one political party or the other.

It is a model that has been taken up world over. It just works. “The world is too complex to explain, so why bother?”

And what will you or me do about it? Subscribe to the NYT? Most of us would rather spend that money on a GenAI subscription because that is bucketed differently in our heads.

walkabout•2h ago
I decided about a decade ago that McLuhan was a prophet, and that the “message” of the Internet may not include compatibility with democracy, as it turns out.
raincole•2h ago
Yep.

How could a candidate who yelling "Fake News" like an idiot get elected? Because of the state of journalism.

How could people turn to AI slop? Because of the state of human slop.

falcor84•2h ago
> Peer-reviewed science is as close as we can get to good consensus

I think we're on the same side of this, but I just want to say that we can do a lot better. As per studies around the Replication Crisis over the last decade [0], and particularly this 2016 survey conducted by Monya Baker from Nature [1]:

> 1,576 researchers who took a brief online questionnaire on reproducibility found that more than 70% of researchers have tried and failed to reproduce another scientist's experiment results (including 87% of chemists, 77% of biologists, 69% of physicists and engineers, 67% of medical researchers, 64% of earth and environmental scientists, and 62% of all others), and more than half have failed to reproduce their own experiments.

We need to expect better, needing both better incentives and better evaluation, and I think that AI can help with this.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/533452a

vidarh•1h ago
> Now let's run this experiment against the editorial boards in newsrooms.

Or against people in general.

It's a pet peeve of mine that we get these kinds of articles without a baseline established of how people do on the same measure.

Is misrepresenting news content 45% of the time better or worse than the average person? I don't know.

By extension: Would a person using an AI assistant misrepresent news more or less after having read a summary of the news provided by an AI assistant? I don't know that either.

When they have a "Why this distortion matters" section, those things matter. They've not established if this will make things better or worse.

(the cynic in me want another question answered too: How often does reporters misrepresent the news? Would it be better or worse if AI reviewed the facts and presented them vs. letting reporters do it? again: no idea)

JumpCrisscross•1h ago
> It's a pet peeve of mine that we get these kinds of articles without a baseline established of how people do on the same measure

I don’t have a personal human news summarizer?

The comparison is between a human reading the primary source against the same human reading an LLM hallucination mixed with an LLM referring the primary source.

> cynic in me want another question answered too: How often does reporters misrepresent the news?

The fact that you mark as cynical a question answered pretty reliably for most countries sort of tanks the point.

n4r9•7m ago
The difference is the ease with which AI can be rolled out, scaled up, and woven into the fabric of our interactions with society.
falcor84•2h ago
> 45% of all AI answers had at least one significant issue.

> 31% of responses showed serious sourcing problems – missing, misleading, or incorrect attributions.

> 20% contained major accuracy issues, including hallucinated details and outdated information.

I'm generally against whataboutism, but here I think we absolutely have to compare it to human-written news reports. Famously, Michael Crichton introduced the "Gell-Mann amnesia effect" [0], saying:

> Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect works as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them.

This has absolutely been my experience. I couldn't find proper figures, but I would put good money on significantly over 45% of articles written in human-written news articles having "at least one significant issue".

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

AyyEye•2h ago
Human news isn't a good comparison because this is second order -- LMMs are downstream of human news. It's a game of stochastic telephone. All the human error is carried through with additional hallucinations on top.
falcor84•1h ago
But the issue is that the vast majority of "human news" is second order (at best), essentially paraphrasing releases by news agencies like Reuters or Associated Press, or scientific articles, and typically doing a horrible job at it.

Regarding scientific reporting, there's as usual a relevant xkcd ("New Study") [0], and in this case even better, there's a fabulous one from PhD Comics ("Science News Cycle") [1].

[0] https://xkcd.com/1295/

[1] https://phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174

Vetch•1h ago
Then the point still stands, this makes things even worse given that it's adding its own hallucinations on top, instead of simply relaying the content or idealistically, identifying issues in the reporting.
dgfitz•1h ago
You understand that an LLM can only poorly regurgitate whatever it’s fed right? An LLM will _always_ be less useful than a primary/secondary source, because they can’t fucking think.
falcor84•1h ago
Regardless of how you define "think", you still need to get a baseline of whether human reporters do that effectively.
bgwalter•2h ago
I'd say the 45% is on top of mistakes by Journalists themselves. "AI" takes certain newspapers as gospel, and it is easy to find omissions, hallucinations, misunderstandings etc. without even fact checking the original articles.
bux93•2h ago
The problem highlighted here is that AI summaries misrepresent the original stories. This just opens a flood gate of slop that is 45% worse than the source, which wasn't stellar to begin with as you point out.
vidarh•1h ago
A whole lot of news is regurgiated wire service reports, so how reporters do matters greatly - if they're doing badly, then it's entirely possible that an AI summary of the wire service releases would be an improvement (probably not, but without a baseline we don't know)

It's also not clear if humans do better when consuming either, and whether the effect of an AI summary, even with substantial issues, is to make the human reading them better or worse informed.

E.g. if it helps a person digest more material by getting more focused reports, it's entirely possible that flawed summaries would still in aggregate lead to a better understanding of a subject.

On its own, this article is just pure sensationalism.

intended•1h ago
Yes, I absolutely see the case for the faster, cheaper, more efficient solution at making random content.

Why stop at what humans can do? AND to not be fettered by any expectations of accuracy, or even feasibility of retractions.

Truly, efficiency unbound.

wat10000•1h ago
That's not comparable. Reading news reports and summarizing them is about a thousand times easier than writing those news reports in the first place. If you want to see how humans fare at this task, have some people answer questions about the news and then compare their answers to the original reporting. I'm not sure if the average human would fare too well at this either, but it's completely different from the question of how accurate the original news itself is.
more_corn•2h ago
Only 45%? That seems low from my experience.
delaminator•2h ago
According to PEW that's about the same % that trust the BBC's reporting.

https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/news-media...

afavour•1h ago
Which is a completely different issue. "Do I trust this news network?" is a subjective opinion. Flat out misstating facts and inventing sources is a much more significant problem.
sofixa•1h ago
You seem to be looking at the wrong chart. Around ~50% each of each politically leaning group use BBC as their primary news source.

However, 79% of Brits trust the BBC as per this chart:

https://legacy.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/20...

GordonS•4m ago
That was back in 2017, if I'm reading the chart correctly. A lot has changed since then, so I'd be genuinely curious to see what more recent figures looked like.
parineum•1h ago
And if they made up 45% of their stories, I imagine their trust would be 0%.
myrmidon•1h ago
Did you mean the Guardian? Because trust in BBC is at ~80% according to what you linked.
alcide•2h ago
Kagi News has been pretty accurate. Source information is provided along with the summary and key details too.

AI summarizes are good for getting a feel of if you want to read an article or not. Even with Kagi News I verify key facts myself.

delusional•1h ago
What if the AI makes an interesting or important article sound like one you don't want to read? You'd never cross check the fact, and you'd never discover how wrong the AI was.
alcide•1h ago
Integrity of words and author intent is important. I understand the intent of your hypothetical but I haven’t run into this issue in practice with Kagi News.

Never share information about an article you have not read. Likewise, never draw definitive conclusions from an article that is not of interest.

If you do not find a headline interesting, the take away is that you did not find the headline interesting. Nothing more, nothing less. You should read the key insights before dismissing an article entirely.

I can imagine AI summarizes being problematic for a class of people that do not cross check if an article is of value to them.

unshavedyak•1h ago
That's fair, but i also don't cross check news sources on average either. I should, but there in lies the real problem imo. Information is war these days, and we've not yet developed tools for wading through immense piles of subtly inaccurate or biased data.

We're in a weird time. It's always been like this, it's just much.. more, now. I'm not sure how we'll adapt.

jabroni_salad•1h ago
There is more written material produced every hour than I could read in a lifetime, I am going to miss 99.9999% of everything no matter what I do. It's not like the headline+blurb you usually get is any better in this regard.
thm•1h ago
Or https://rawdiary.com
jjtheblunt•1h ago
agreed on Kagi News, and Particle News has been good, but they accepted funding from The Atlantic which evidently earns "Featured Article" positioning to articles from funding sources, muddying the clarity of biases, which Particle News has a nice graphic indicator for, though i've not seen it under promoted Feature Articles. Surely applies to other funding sources, but The Atlantic one was pretty recent.
brabel•1h ago
How do you verify a fact? Do you travel to the location and interview the locals? Or read scientific papers in various fields, including their own references, to validate summaries published by news sources? At some point you need to just trust that someone is telling the truth.
visarga•2h ago
I recently tried to get Gemini to collect fresh news and show them to me, and instead of using search it hallucinated everything wholesale, titles, abstracts and links. Not just once, multiple times. I am kind of afraid of using Gemini now for anything related to web search.

Here is a sample:

> [1] Google DeepMind and Harvard researchers propose a new method for testing the ‘theory of mind’ of LLMs - Researchers have introduced a novel framework for evaluating the "theory of mind" capabilities in large language models. Rather than relying on traditional false-belief tasks, this new method assesses an LLM’s ability to infer the mental states of other agents (including other LLMs) within complex social scenarios. It provides a more nuanced benchmark for understanding if these systems are merely mimicking theory of mind through pattern recognition or developing a more robust, generalizable model of other minds. This directly provides material for the construct_metaphysics position by offering a new empirical tool to stress-test the computational foundations of consciousness-related phenomena.

> https://venturebeat.com/ai/google-deepmind-and-harvard-resea...

The link does not work, the title is not found in Google Search either.

luckydata•1h ago
Gemini is notoriously bad at tool calling and it's also widely speculated that 3.0 will put an emphasis on fixing that.
wat10000•1h ago
They can be good for search, but you must click through the provided links and verify that they actually say what it says they do.
bloppe•1h ago
The problem is that 90% of people will not do that once they've satisfied their confirmation bias. Hard to say if that's going to be better or worse than the current echo chamber effects of the Internet. I'm still holding out for better, but certainly this is shaking that assumption
reaperducer•1h ago
They can be good for search, but you must click through the provided links and verify that they actually say what it says they do.

Then they're not very good at search.

It's like saying the proverbial million monkeys at typewriters are good at search because eventually they type something right.

wat10000•15m ago
Huh? All the classic search engines required you to click through the results and read them. There's nothing wrong with that. What's different is that LLMs will give you a summary that might make you think you can get away with not clicking through anymore. This is a mistake. But that doesn't mean that the search itself is bad. I've had plenty of cases where an LLM gave me incorrect summaries of search results, and plenty of cases where it found stuff I had a hard time finding on my own because it was better at figuring out what to search for.
Yizahi•1h ago
But LLM can't collect anything. It can generate the most likely characters in a row. What exactly did you expect from it?
layer8•50m ago
Current LLM offerings use realtime web search to collect information and answer questions.
HWR_14•47m ago
Why would you want Gemini to do this instead of just going to a news site (or several news sites) and reading what the headlines they wrote?
everdrive•2h ago
It's important to bear this in mind whenever you find out that someone uses an LLM to summarize a meeting, email, or other communication you've held. That person is not really getting the message you were conveying.
delusional•1h ago
That's a scary thought to me. They're not just outsourcing their thinking. They are actively sabotaging the only tool in their arsenal that could ever supplant it.

I've felt it myself. Recently I was looking as some documentation without a clear edit history. I thought about feeding it into an AI and having it generate one for me, but didn't because I didn't have the time. To think, if I had done that, it probably would have generated a perfectly acceptable edit history but one that would have obscured what changes were actually made. I wouldn't just lack knowledge (like I do now) I would have obtained anti knowledge.

zamadatix•1h ago
You've gotta be careful using "not just X, but Y" these days ;).
senordevnyc•46m ago
It would be important to bear this in mind if it was true, but it's not.

I do sales meetings all day every day, and I've tried different AI note takers that send a summary of the meeting afterwards. I skim them when they get dumped into my CRM and they're almost always quite accurate. And I can verify it, because I was in the meeting.

ajsnigrutin•2h ago
Considering it's EBU with national media (usually taxpayer paid, or paid by some other mandatory way), it would be more interesting if they focused on what the media is reporting now, with human reporters and misleading and other kinds of false reportings. If the frontpage article said something wrong (either by malice or accident), there should be a frontpage article reporting about their error too.

Optimistically that could be extended "twitter-style" by mandatory basic fact checking and reports when they just copy a statement by some politician or misrepresented science stuff (xkcd 1217, X cures cancer), and add the corrections.

But yeah... in my country, with all the 5G-danger craze, we had TV debates with a PhD in telecommunications on one side, and a "building biologist" on the other, so yeah...

retinaros•1h ago
In other words they are more factual than the bbc
jsheard•1h ago
LLMs aren't doing journalism on their own, whatever mistakes they make are compounded on top of any mistakes that the actual sources (such as the BBC) might have made.
bparsons•1h ago
One thing that makes me pessimistic about the short term utility of LLMs has been their inability to produce basic media monitoring documents. This is an intern type entry level task that it simply cannot complete with any reliability or consistency. It doesn't matter if I use the expensive paid services or spend dozens of prompts trying to configure, it simply wont produce a document that is of any use to me.

If that is the case with a task so simple, why would we rely on these tools for high risk applications like medical diagnosis or analyzing financial data?

cek•1h ago
From the report:

> This time, we used the free/consumer versions of ChatGPT, Copilot, Perplexity and Gemini.

IOW, they tested ChatGPT twice (Copilot uses ChatGPT's models) and didn't test Grok (or others).

scarmig•1h ago
If you dig into the actual report (I know, I know, how passe), you see how they get the numbers. Most of the errors are "sourcing issues": the AI assistant doesn't cite a claim, or it (shocking) cites Wikipedia instead of the BBC.

Other issues: the report doesn't even say which particular models it's querying [ETA: discovered they do list this in an appendix], aside from saying it's the consumer tier. And it leaves off Anthropic (in my experience, by far the best at this type of task), favoring Perplexity and (perplexingly) Copilot. The article also intermingles claims from the recent report and the one on research conducted a year ago, leaving out critical context that... things have changed.

This article contains significant issues.

afavour•1h ago
> or it (shocking) cites Wikipedia instead of the BBC.

No... the problem is that it cites Wikipedia articles that don't exist.

> ChatGPT linked to a non-existent Wikipedia article on the “European Union Enlargement Goals for 2040”. In fact, there is no official EU policy under that name. The response hallucinates a URL but also, indirectly, an EU goal and policy.

scarmig•1h ago
> Participating organizations raised concerns about responses that relied heavily or solely on Wikipedia content – Radio-Canada calculated that of 108 sources cited in responses from ChatGPT, 58% were from Wikipedia. CBC-Radio-Canada are amongst a number of Canadian media organisations suing ChatGPT’s creator, OpenAI, for copyright infringement. Although the impact of this on ChatGPT’s approach to sourcing is not explicitly known, it may explain the high use of Wikipedia sources.

Also, is attributing, without any citation, ChatGPT's preference for Wikipedia to a reprisal to an active lawsuit a significant issue? Or do the authors get off scot-free because they caged it in "we don't know, but maybe it's the case"?

ffsm8•1h ago
Literally constantly? It takes both careful prompting and throughout double-checking to really notice however. Because often the links also exist, just don't represent what the LLM made it sound like.

And the worst part about the people unironically thinking they can use it for "research" is, that it essentially supercharges confirmation bias.

The inefficient sidequests you do while researching is generally what actually gives you the ability to really reason about a topic.

If you instead just laser focus on the tidbits you prompted with... Well, your opinion is a lot less grounded.

terminalshort•26m ago
It's a huge issue. No wonder AI hallucinates when it trains on this kind of crap.
kenjackson•1h ago
Actually there was a Wikipedia article of this name, but it was deleted in June -- because it was AI generated. Unfortunately AI falls for this much like humans do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...

Workaccount2•1h ago
This is likely because of the knowledge cutoff.

I have seen a few cases before of "hallucinations" that turned out to be things that did exist, but no longer do.

1980phipsi•1h ago
The fix for this is for the AI to double-check all links before providing them to the user. I frequently ask ChatGPT to double check that references actually exist when it gives me them. It should be built in!
rideontime•52m ago
But that would mean OpenAI would lose even more money on every query.
blitzar•49m ago
I have found my self doing the same "citation needed" loop - but with ai this is a dangerous game as it will now double down on whatever it made up and go looking for citations to justify its answer.

Pre prompting to cite sources is obviously a better way of going about things.

janwl•42m ago
I thought people here hated it when LLMs made http requests?
macintux•25m ago
I don't know for certain what you're referring to, but the "bulk downloads" of the Internet that AI companies are executing for training are the problem I've seen cited, and doesn't relate to LLMs checking their sources at query time.
bunderbunder•51m ago
The biggest problem with that citation isn't that the article has since been deleted. The biggest problem is that that particular Wikipedia article was never a good source in the first place.

That seems to be the real challenge with AI for this use case. It has no real critical thinking skills, so it's not really competent to choose reliable sources. So instead we're lowering the bar to just asking that the sources actually exist. I really hate that. We shouldn't be lowering intellectual standards to meet AI where it's at. These intellectual standards are important and hard-won, and we need to be demanding that AI be the one to rise to meet them.

gamerDude•45m ago
I think this is a real challenge for everyone. In many ways potentially we need a restart of a wikipedia like site to document all the valid and good sources. This would also hopefully include things like source bias and whether it's a primary/secondary/tertiary source.
kenjackson•16m ago
I get what your saying. But you are now asking for a level of intelligence and critical thinking that I honestly believe is higher than the average person. I think its absolutely doable, but I also feel like we shouldn't make it sound like the current behavior is abhorrent or somehow indicative of a failure in the technology.
exe34•7m ago
It's actually great from my point of view - it means we're edging our way into limited superintelligence.
CaptainOfCoit•18m ago
> Actually there was a Wikipedia article of this name, but it was deleted in June -- because it was AI generated. Unfortunately AI falls for this much like humans do.

A recent Kurzgesagt goes into the dangers of this, and they found the same thing happening with a concrete example: They were researching a topic, tried using LLMs, found they weren't accurate enough and hallucinated, so they continued doing things the manual way. Then some weeks/months later, they noticed a bunch of YouTube videos that had the very hallucinations they were avoiding, and now their own AI assistants started to use those as sources. Paraphrased/remembered by me, could have some inconsistencies/hallucinations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zfN9wnPvU0

menaerus•1h ago
> For the current research, a set of 30 “core” news questions was developed

Right. Let's talk about statistics for a bit. Or let's put it differently: they found in their report that 45% of the answers for 30 questions they have "developed" had a significant issue, e.g. inexisting reference

I'll give you 30 questions out of my sleeve where 95% of the answers will not have any significant issue.

matthewmacleod•1h ago
Yes, I'm sure you could hack together some bullshit questions to demonstrate whatever you want. Is there a specific reason that the reasonably straightforward methodology they did use is somehow flawed?
menaerus•1h ago
Yes, and you answered it yourself.
darkwater•59m ago
Err, no? Being _possible_ does not necessarily imply that's what happened.
menaerus•43m ago
A bucket of 30 questions is not a statistically significant sample size which we can use to support the hypothesis which goes to say that all AI assistants they tested are 45% of the time wrong. That's not how science works.

Neither is my bucket of 30 questions statistcally significant but it goes to say that I can disprove their hypothesis just by giving them my sample.

I think that the report is being disingenious and I don't understand for what reasons. it's funny that they say "misrepresent" when that's exactly what they are doing.

hnuser123456•1h ago
Do we have any good research on how much less often larger, newer models will just make stuff up like this? As it is, it's pretty clear LLMs are categorically not a good idea for directly querying for information in any non-fiction-writing context. If you're using an LLM to research something that needs to be accurate, the LLM needs to be doing a tool call to a web search and only asked to summarize relevant facts from the existing information it can find, and have them be cited by hard-coding the UI to link the pages the LLM reviewed. The LLM itself cannot be trusted to generate its own citations. It will just generate something that looks like a relevant citation, along with whatever imaginary content it wants to attribute to this non-existent source.
jacobolus•1h ago
A further problem is that Wikipedia is chock full of nonsense, with a large proportion of articles that were never fact checked by an expert, and many that were written to promote various biased points of view, inadvertently uncritically repeat claims from slanted sources, or mischaracterize claims made in good sources. Many if not most articles have poor choice of emphasis of subtopics, omit important basic topics, and make routine factual errors. (This problem is not unique to Wikipedia by any means, and despite its flaws Wikipedia is an amazing achievement.)

A critical human reader can go as deep as they like in examining claims there: can look at the source listed for a claim, can often click through to read the claim in the source, can examine the talk page and article history, can search through the research literature trying to figure out where the claim came from or how it mutated in passing from source to source, etc. But an AI "reader" is a predictive statistical model, not a critical consumer of information.

senderista•37m ago
Just the other day, I clicked through to a Wikipedia reference (a news article) and discovered that the citing sentence grossly misrepresented the source. Probably not accidental since it was about a politically charged subject.
bigbuppo•44m ago
The problem is that people are using it as a substitute for a web search, and the web search company has decided to kill off search as a product and pivot to video, err, I mean pivot to AI chatbots so hard they replaced one of the common ways to access emergency services on their mobile phones with an AI chatbot that can't help you in an emergency.

Not to mention, the AI companies have been extremely abusive to the rest of the internet so they are often blocked from accessing various web sites, so it's not like they're going to be able to access legitimate information anyways.

shinycode•44m ago
I used perplexity for searches and I clicked on all sources that were given. Depending on the model used from 100% to 20% of the urls I tested did not exist. I kept on querying the LLM about it and it finally told me that it generated « the most probable » urls for the topic in question based on the ones he knows exists. Useless.
smrq•39m ago
I share your opinion on the results, but why would you trust the LLM explanation for why it does what it does?
shinycode•7m ago
I don’t trust it at all. I wanted to know if he would be able to explain its own results. Just because it was displaying sources and links made me trust it until I checked and was horrified. I wanted to know if it was old link that broke or changed but no apparently
FooBarWidget•42m ago
I wouldn't even say BBC is a good source to cite. For foreign news, BBC is outright biased. Though I don't have any good suggestions for what an LLM should cite instead.
EA-3167•40m ago
Ground News or something similar that at least attempts to aggregate, compare ownership, bias, and factuality.

Imo at least

542458•38m ago
Reuters or AP IMO. Both take NPOV and accuracy very seriously. Reuters famously wouldn't even refer to the 9/11 hijackers as terrorists, as they wanted to remain as value-neutral as possible.
sdoering•28m ago
In addition to that dpa from Germany for German news. Yes, dpa has had issues, but it is in my experience by far the source trying to be as non partisan as possible. Not necessarily when they sell their online feed business, though.

Disclaimer: Started my career in onine journalism/aggregation. Hada 4 week internship with the dpa online daughter some 16 years ago.

dontlaugh•38m ago
The BBC has a strong right wing bias within the UK too.

There’s no such thing as unbiased.

gadders•37m ago
Apt user name.

The BBC is the broadcast wing of the Guardian.

AndrewStephens•29m ago
I love how everyone seems to agree that the BBC is horribly biased but there is fierce debate as to whether it is run by the ghost of Joseph Goebbels or if the staff start each day singing The Red Flag.

Perhaps the real bias was inside us the whole time.

gadders•24m ago
Yes, that would be the Centrist Dad take.
marcosdumay•33m ago
Well, if it's describing news content, it should cite the original news article.
scellus•13m ago
Are citation issues related to the fact that https://www.bbc.co.uk/robots.txt denies a lot of AI, both user agents and crawlers?
simonw•1h ago
Page 10 onwards of this PDF shows concrete examples of the mistakes: https://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/documents/news-integrity-i...

> ChatGPT / CBC / Is Türkiye in the EU?

> ChatGPT linked to a non-existent Wikipedia article on the “European Union Enlargement Goals for 2040”. In fact, there is no official EU policy under that name. The response hallucinates a URL but also, indirectly, an EU goal and policy.

brabel•1h ago
It did exist but got removed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...

Quite an omission to not even check for that and it make me think that was done intentionally.

sharkjacobs•1h ago
Removed because it was an AI generated article which cited made up sources.

Hey, that gives me an idea though, subagents which check whether sources cited exist, and create them whole cloth if they don't

1899-12-30•53m ago
Or subagents that check each link to see if they verify the actual claims the links are sourced for.
jpadkins•49m ago
you shouldn't automate what the CIA already does!
simonw•17m ago
It's probably for the best that chat interfaces avoid making direct HTTP calls to sources at run-time to confirm that they don't 404 - imagine how much extra traffic that could add to an internet ecosystem which is suffering from badly written crawlers already.

(Not to mention plenty of sites have added robots.txt rules deliberately excluding known AI user-agents now.)

dangoodmanUT•1h ago
Says… the news…
almosthere•1h ago
Wow, it must be fact checking it then!
spacephysics•1h ago
Its just another layer of potential misdirection that BBC themselves, and many other news orgs, perpetuate. Im not surprised.

From first hand experience -> secondary sources -> journalist regurgitation -> editorial changes

This is just another layer. Doesn't make it right, but we could do the same analysis with articles that mainstream news publishes (and it has been done, GroundNews looks to be a productized version of this)

Its very interesting when I see people I know personally, or YouTubers with small audiences get even local news/newspaper coverage. If its something potentially damning, nearly all cases have pieces of misrepresentation that either go unaccounted for, or a revision months later after the reputational damage is done.

Many veterans see the same for war reporting, spins/details omitted or changed. Its just now BBC sees an existential threat with AI doing their job for them. Hopefully in a few years more accurately.

empath75•1h ago
I am reading the actual report and some of this seems _quite_ nitpicky:

> ChatGPT / Radio-Canada / Is Trump starting a trade war? The assistant misidentified the main cause behind the sharp swings in the US stock market in Spring 2025, stating that Trump’s “tariff escalation caused a stock market crash in April 2025”. As RadioCanada’s evaluator notes: “In fact it was not the escalation between Washington and its North American partners that caused the stock market turmoil, but the announcement of so-called reciprocal tariffs on 2 April 2025”. ----

> Perplexity / LRT / How long has Putin been president? The assistant states that Putin has been president for 25 years. As LRT’s evaluator notes: “This is fundamentally wrong, because for 4 years he was not president, but prime minister”, adding that the assistant “may have been misled by the fact that one source mentions in summary terms that Putin has ruled the country for 25 years” ---

> Copilot / CBC / What does NATO do? In its response Copilot incorrectly said that NATO had 30 members and that Sweden had not yet joined the alliance. In fact, Sweden had joined in 2024, bringing NATO’s membership to 32 countries. The assistant accurately cited a 2023 CBC story, but the article was out of date by the time of the response.

---

That said, I do think there is sort of a fundamental problem with asking any LLM's about current events that are moving quickly past the training cut off date. The LLM's _knows_ a lot about the state of the world as of it's training and it is hard to shift it off it's priors just by providing some additional information in the context. Try asking chatgpt about sports in particular. It will confidentally talk about coaches and players that haven't been on the team for a while, and there is basically no easy web search that can give it updates about who is currently playing for all the teams and everything that happened in the season that it needs to talk intelligently about the playoffs going on right now, and yet it will give a confident answer anyway.

This even more true and with even higher stakes about politics. Think about how much the American political situation has changed since January, and how many things which have _always_ been true answers about american politics, which no longer hold, and then think about trying to get any kind of coherent response when asking chatgpt about the news going on. It gives quite idiotic answers about politics quite frequently now.

wat10000•1h ago
That may be nitpicky, but I don't think it's too much to ask that a computer system be fully factually accurate when it comes to basic objective numerical facts. This is very much a case of, "if it gets this stuff wrong, what else is it getting wrong?"
empath75•44m ago
It is in fact too much to expect that an LLM get fine details correct because it is by design quite fuzzy and non-deterministic. It's like trying to paint the Mona Lisa with a paint roller.

It's just a misuse of the tools to present LLM's summaries to people without a _lot_ of caveats about it's accuracy. I don't think they belong _anywhere_ near a legitimate news source.

My primary point about calling out those mistakes is that those are the kinds of minor mistakes in a summary that I would find quite tolerable and expected in my own use of LLMs, but I know what I am getting into when I use them. Just chucking those LLM generated summaries next to search results is malpractice, though.

I think the primary point of friction in a lot of critiques between people who find LLMs useful and people who hate AI usage is this:

People who use AI to generate content for consumption by others are being quite irresponsible in how it is presented, and are using it to replace human work that it is totally unsuitable for. A news organization that is putting out AI generated articles and summaries should just close up shop. They're producing totally valueless work. If I wanted chatgpt to summarize something, I could ask it myself in 20 seconds.

People who use AI for _themselves_ are more aware of what they are getting into, know the provenance, and aren't presenting it for others as their own work necessarily. This is more valuable economically, because getting someone to summarize something for you as an individual is quite expensive and time consuming, and even if the end results is quite shoddy, it's often better than nothing. This also goes for generating dumb videos on Sora or whatever or AI generated music for yourself to listen to or send to a few friends.

filoeleven•37m ago
What's the actual utility of a warning-stickered-to-death unreliable summary?
mhb•1h ago
BBC Gaza documentary a 'serious' breach of rules, Ofcom says:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c629j5m2n01o

Claim graphic video is linked to aid distribution site in Gaza is incorrect

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/ceqgvwyjjg8t?post=asset%3A35f5...

BBC ‘breached guidelines 1,500 times’ over Israel-Hamas war:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/07/bbc-breached-gui...

Workaccount2•1h ago
The media today is so polarized, so dishonest, and so bent on feeding the egos of it's users, the bar to pass them is literally underground.

You can go through most big name media stories and find it ridden with omissions of uncomfortable facts, careful structuring of words to give the illusion of untrue facts being true, and careful curation of what stories are reported.

More than anything, I hope AI topples the garbage bin fire that is modern "journalism". Also, it should be very clear why the media is especially hostile towards AI. It might reveal them as the clowns they are, and kill the social division and controversy that is their lifeblood.

underlipton•1h ago
All of this is true, and LLMs' nature as stochastic parrots mean that they'll do pretty much nothing to stem the tide. Journalism needs to be somewhere between the USPS, USAID, and local school boards: a network of local and independent offices, funded mostly by guaranteed government grants, reporting judiciously and independently of how the content squares with any particular group's interests. And if anyone wants to curate that feed, fine, but the feed would be there for all to peruse.
nextworddev•1h ago
That sounds better than humans
Narciss•1h ago
> All participating organizations then generated responses to each question from each of the four AI assistants. This time, we used the free/consumer versions of ChatGPT, Copilot, Perplexity and Gemini. Free versions were chosen to replicate the default (and likely most common) experience for users. Responses were generated in late May and early June 2025.

First of all, none of the SOTA models we're currently using were released in May and early June. Gemini 2.5 came out in June 17, GPT 5 & Claude Opus 4.1 at the beginning of August.

On top of that, to use free models for anything like this is absolutely wild. I use the absolute best models, and the research versions of this whenever I do research. Anything less is inviting disaster.

You have to use the right tools for the right job, and any report that is more than a month old is useless in the AI world at this point in time, beyond a snapshot of how things 'used to be'.

Signez•1h ago
I think you are missing the point: it's mainly to highlight that the models that most people use, i.e. free versions with default settings, output a large number of factual errors, even when they are asked to base their answer to specific sources of information (as it's explained in their methodology document).
biophysboy•1h ago
If they used a paid version, their study would not represent how most people use AI (with the free version)
layer8•46m ago
> to use free models for anything like this is absolutely wild

It would be wild if they’d use anything else, because the free models are what most people use, and the concern is on how AI influences the general population.

filoeleven•43m ago
> On top of that, to use free models for anything like this is absolutely wild. I use the absolute best models, and the research versions of this whenever I do research. Anything less is inviting disaster.

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts

incomingpain•1h ago
http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/hatethenews

I've been thinking about the state of our media, and the crisis of trust in news began long before AI.

We have a huge issue, and the problem is with the producers and the platform.

I'm not talking about professional journalists who make an honest mistake, own up to it with a retraction, and apologize. I’m talking about something far more damaging: the rise of false journalists, who are partisan political activists whose primary goal is to push a deliberately misleading or false narrative.

We often hear the classic remedy for bad speech: more speech, not censorship. The idea is that good arguments will naturally defeat bad ones in the marketplace of ideas.

Here's the trap: these provocateurs create content that is so outrageously or demonstrably false that it generates massive engagement. People are trying to fix their bad speech with more speech. And the algorithm mistakes this chaotic engagement for value.

As a result, the algorithm pushes the train wreck to the forefront. The genuinely good journalists get drowned out. They are ignored by the algorithm because measured, factual reporting simply doesn't generate the same volatile reaction.

The false journalists, meanwhile, see their soaring popularity and assume it's because their "point" is correct and it's those 'evil nazis from the far right who are wrong'. In reality, they're not popular because they're insightful; they're popular because they're a train wreck. We're all rubbernecking at the disaster and the system is rewarding them for crashing the integrity of our information.

BeetleB•1h ago
Actual news articles misrepresent reality more often than 45%.

Some very recent discussions on HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45617088

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45585323

biophysboy•1h ago
How is that possible if the AI models rely on and implicitly trust these sources?
BeetleB•1h ago
The article is about how well AI models misrepresent the content of news, not how often they misrepresent reality. My point is that even if the AI models make no errors when representing news content, they'll still be quite inaccurate when reality is the benchmark.

Who cares if AI does a good job representing the source, when the source is crap?

nopinsight•1h ago
Hallucination Leaderboard "This evaluates how often an LLM introduces hallucinations when summarizing a document."

https://github.com/vectara/hallucination-leaderboard

If the figures on this leaderboard are to be trusted, many frontier and near-frontier models are already better than the median white-collar worker in this aspect.

Note: The leaderboard doesn't cover tool calling, to be clear.

whatever1•1h ago
I’ve been reviewing academic papers for decades, and I’ve reviewed thousands of them. I’ve never seen a fake citation. I’ve seen misrepresented sources and cooked data, but never a straight-up fake citation.

So the min max and median are at 0.

roguecoder•1h ago
I am curious if LLMs evangelists understand how off-putting it is when they knee-jerk rationalize how badly these tools are performing. It makes it seem like it isn't about technological capabilities: it is about a religious belief that "competence" is too much to ask of either them or their software tools.
welshwelsh•51m ago
Is that just an LLM thing? I thought that as a society, we decided a long time ago that competence doesn't really matter.

Why else would we be giving high school diplomas to people who can't read at a 5th grade level? Or offshore call center jobs to people who have poor English skills?

senordevnyc•49m ago
I'm curious if LLM skeptics bother to click through and read the details on a study like this, or if they just reflexively upvote it because it confirms their priors.

This is a hit piece by a media brand that's either feeling threatened or is just incompetent. Or both.

smt88•21m ago
Whether a hitpiece or not, it rhymes with my experience and provides receipts. Can you provide yours?
palmotea•48m ago
I wonder how many of those evangelists have some dumb AI startup that'll implode once the hype dies down (or a are a software engineer who feels smart when he follows their lead). One thing that's been really off putting about the technology industry is how fake-it-till-you-make-it has become so pervasive.
lyu07282•7m ago
I partially agree, it seems a lot have shifted the argument to news media criticism or something else. But this study is also questionable, for anyone who reads actual academic studies that should be immediately obvious. I don't understand why the bar is this low for some paid Ipsos study vs. some peer-reviewed paper in some IEEE journal?

Like for a study like this I expect as a bare minimum clearly stated model variants used, R@k recall numbers measuring retrieval and something like BLEU or ROUGE to measure summarization accuracy against some baseline on top of their human evaluation metrics. If this is useless for the field itself, I don't understand how this can be useful for anyone outside the field?

paganel•1h ago
That's better than even the journalists writing said "content".
jihadjihad•1h ago
55% of the time it works every time?

Or is it, 55% of the time the accuracy is in line with the baseline news error, since certainly not all news articles are 100% accurate to begin with.

book_mike•1h ago
BBC, nice PDF. Fossils.
Workaccount2•1h ago
I have been unable to recreate any of the failure examples they gave. I don't have co-pilot, but at least Gemini 2.5 pro, ChatGPT5-Thinking, and Perplexity have all give the correct answers as outlined.[1]

They don't say what models they were actually using though, so it could be nano models that they asked. They also don't outline the structure of the tests. It seems rigor here was pretty low. Which frankly comes off a bit like...misrepresentation.

Edit: They do some outlining in the appendix of the study. They used GPT-4o, 2.5 flash, default free copilot, and default free perplexity.

So they used light weight and/or old models.

[1]https://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/documents/news-integrity-i...

ashenke•51m ago
They're talking about assistants, not models, so try using the gemini or perplexity app?
HardCodedBias•1h ago
I get almost all of my news from LLMs.

I scan the top stories of the day at various news websites. I then go to an LLM (either Gemini or ChatGPT) and ask it to figure out the core issues, the LLM thinks for a while searches a ton of topics and outputs a fantastic analysis of what is happening and what are the base issues. I can follow up and repeat the process.

The analysis is almost entirely fact based and very well reasoned.

It's fantastic and if I was the BBC I would indeed know that the world is changing under their feet and I would strike back in any dishonest way that I could.

j45•54m ago
This article should be adjusted to say poor prompting of news content misrepresents news content 45% of the time.

Now, who is responsible for poor prompting?

Maybe the LLM models will just tighten up this part of their models and assistants and suddenly it looks solved.

keepamovin•54m ago
Still better odds than HN
croddin•45m ago
For comparison, what percentage of the time do human run publications misrepresent news content?
iainctduncan•45m ago
I'm curious how many people have actually taken the time to compare AI summaries with sources they summarize. I did for a few and ... it was really bad. In my experience, they don't summarize at all, they do a random condensation.. not the same thing at all. In one instance I looked at the result was a key takeaway being the opposite of what it should have been. I don't trust them at all now.
staindk•36m ago
Kind of related to this - we meet with Google Meets and have its Gemini Notes feature enabled globally. I realised last week that the summary notes it generates puts such a positive spin on everything that it's pretty useless to refer back to after a somewhat critical/negative meeting. It will solely focus on the positives that were discussed - at least that's what it seems like to me.
dcre•4m ago
In my experience there is a big difference between good models and weak ones. Quick test with this long article I read recently: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/anna--lindsey-halligan-...

The command I ran was `curl -s https://r.jina.ai/https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/anna-... | cb | ai -m gpt-5-mini summarize this article in one paragraph`. r.jina.ai pulls the text as markdown, and cb just wraps in a ``` code fence, and ai is my own LLM CLI https://github.com/david-crespo/llm-cli.

All of them seem pretty good to me, though at 6 cents the regular use of Sonnet for this purpose would be excessive. Note that reasoning was on the default setting in each case. I think that means the gpt-5 mini one did no reasoning but the other two did.

GPT-5 one paragraph: https://gist.github.com/david-crespo/f2df300ca519c336f9e1953...

GPT-5 three paragraphs: https://gist.github.com/david-crespo/d68f1afaeafdb68771f5103...

GPT-5 mini one paragraph: https://gist.github.com/david-crespo/32512515acc4832f47c3a90...

GPT-5 mini three paragraphs: https://gist.github.com/david-crespo/ed68f09cb70821cffccbf6c...

Sonnet 4.5 one paragraph: https://gist.github.com/david-crespo/e565a82d38699a5bdea4411...

Sonnet 4.5 three paragraphs: https://gist.github.com/david-crespo/2207d8efcc97d754b7d9bf4...

Havoc•30m ago
I've switched almost entirely to AI news (basically research mode & give it 10 areas I'm interested in).

It definitely has a issues in the detail, but if you're only skimming the result for headlines it's perfectly fine. e.g. Pakistan and Afghanistan are shooting at each other. I wouldn't trust it to understand the tribal nuances behind why, but the key fact is there.

[One exception is economic indicators, especially forward looking trends stuff in say logistics. Don't know precisely why but it really can't do it..completely hopeless]

basisword•28m ago
Headlines misrepresent news content 90% of the time.
giantg2•23m ago
"AI assistants misrepresent news content 45% of the time"

How does that compare to the number for reporters? I feel like half the time I read or hear a report on a subject I know the reporter misrepresented something.

megaman821•14m ago
It seems if half the questions are political hot button issues. While slightly interesting, this does not represent how these AIs would do on drier news items. Some of these questions are more appropriate for deep-research modes than quick answers since even legitamate news sources are filled with opinions on the actual answers.
pkghost•4m ago
they did not use RAG for these tests... how are we supposed to take the report seriously when it does not demonstrate even a cursory understanding of nature of LLMs?