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Why should I care what color the bikeshed is? (1999)

https://www.bikeshed.com/
53•program•1w ago

Comments

darth_avocado•4h ago
This article has been shared at least 10 times before on HN over the last decade. Amazing to see people organically find it over the years.
nanodeath•3h ago
Including this one, 34 times :')
erk__•2h ago
Interestingly phk's own site has only been referenced once http://freebsd.dk/sagas/bikeshed/
dang•1h ago
These appear to be the interesting threads. Others?

Ask HN: How do you avoid bikeshedding? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30959723 - April 2022 (14 comments)

Why Should I Care What Color the Bikeshed Is? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29772108 - Jan 2022 (1 comment)

Why Should I Care What Color the Bikeshed Is? (1999) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12533079 - Sept 2016 (52 comments)

Bikeshedding - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12403557 - Sept 2016 (31 comments)

Why Should I Care What Color the Bikeshed Is? (1999) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6188408 - Aug 2013 (31 comments)

Why Should I Care What Color the Bikeshed Is? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1739203 - Sept 2010 (2 comments)

Why Should I Care What Color the Bikeshed Is? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=272246 - Aug 2008 (14 comments)

NaOH•27m ago
Why Should I Care What Color the Bikeshed Is? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25888 - June 2007 (4 comments)
wavemode•4h ago
(1999)
hoofedear•3h ago
“Bikeshedding” is one of my favorite terms I’ve learned since becoming a programmer :)
squidgyhead•3h ago
I write code and also cycle. I built a bike shed in my back yard. It has become quite difficult to search for advice on how to actually build a bike shed.
dghlsakjg•3h ago
Enlighten us!

What differentiates a good shed from a bike shed?

lostlogin•2h ago
> What differentiates a good shed from a bike shed?

If my bike is there when I go to it.

neilv•2h ago
Let's crowdsource that question on HN.
CodesInChaos•1h ago
The colour, of course.
wgjordan•3h ago
See also a rebuttal of sorts [1] from Brett Glass, the sole programmer singled out by name in phk's essay:

> Poul-Henning's assertion that all such ideas should be dismissed as "bikeshedding" reflects this dismissive attitude, which can be just as damaging to a software project as taking too many suggestions (or accepting bad ones). At the time of the discussion I mention above, internal squabbles drove several talented programmers from the project, and I was discouraged from becoming more deeply involved in it. FreeBSD was falling behind Linux in features and in popularity. While it has now caught up in terms of technology, it remains an underdog. This is, in part, due to the developers' dismissal as "bikeshedding" of good ideas that Linux adopted much earlier.

[1] http://bikeshed.info/

anonymous908213•2h ago
Grabbing that domain, they must have quite an axe to grind. Not that the attack on them was any less childish.
rectang•1h ago
It sucks to be called out by name in a document that’s been referenced continuously for decades. I would be surprised if whatever he said to piss off Poul Henning Kamp warrants that level of retribution.
eviks•23m ago
Why? Isn't that a trivial thing to do so that even the tiniest of axes could justify?
anonymous908213•5m ago
The action itself is trivial, sure, but that and the quora answer itself kind of indicates the issue has been living in their head for at least 15 years, which is a rather long time for a dumb quip to be taking up any amount of mental space.
azundo•2h ago
I feel like I'm missing the context of the sleep(1) debate and reading both points of view they seem like they're arguing for the same side? Would love for someone to cleanly explain both sides to this as I clearly don't quite get it.
kfogel•3h ago
We are happy to be providing this public service :-). I wish the term were better known outside tech; it's useful in so many contexts.
kazinator•2h ago
Here is the thing. If you have a Convention Manual which calls for a certain color for bike sheds, then you use that. Failing that, if you have several other bike sheds of a certain color, then that's what you use, for consistency with existing bike sheds.

The color of the bike shed only doesn't matter if it's the only bike shed, and there is no documentation which has already settled the matter.

aunty_helen•2h ago
Wouldn't you change the color if there's existing bike sheds of the same? So you can reference them by color.
YZF•2h ago
The rule there is that it doesn't matter how many style guides you have or tools to auto-style your thing or whatnot people will still find something to nitpick and argue about.

If the Convention Manual says all sheds shall be green they'll argue about what shade of green. If it says it should be Magellan Green they'll argue about whether it should be clear coated and what grit should be used to prepare the surface. It never ends. They'll argue about whether the window frames should be the same color etc.

mullingitover•1h ago
And per Sayre's Law[1] the more inconsequential the decision, the more intense the argument will be.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law

burnto•1h ago
We are a continuous learning organization, and selecting this bike shed’s color is an opportunity to leverage everything we’ve learned since the last bike shed project. It’s a fast moving space, and we’re a different team at a different point in time. The color we selected in the past may not be the right color today. In fact, this is an ideal time to consider a bike shed color transformation program to update all legacy bike shed coloring for consistency.
YZF•2h ago
Reminds me of a story a friend related a long time ago about how to manage bosses. That probably applies to bike sheds.

The general idea is to introduce a glaring mistake into any proposal you make. Then the boss (or whoever feels like bikeshedding) can "catch" that mistake upon which you congratulate them on their infinite wisdom, fix the mistake, and the project can move along.

So to avoid the bikeshed color discussion, just do something totally stupid, like not have a roof, or a wall, then the nit-pickers will comment on that, you can quickly "address their concerns" and proceed to have a bike shed of any color you want.

marshmellman•2h ago
How does one do this without appearing incompetent?
YZF•2h ago
You just gotta pick mistakes that are plausible. The point is whatever you do the "bad boss" will find something.

The very competent can do this without the boss realizing ;) Or it's just a tall tale.

wizardforhire•2h ago
Spellcheck is a thing…

One strategically misspelled word placed somewhere around and neer the lower right of the page…

At least that’s the way some lawyers I know do it.

aureianimus•2h ago
The version I heard involves a 3d artist adding an obnoxious fairy flying around the character, so not critical, but noticable.

I also think the idea here is to apply it to bosses who's self-worth seems to be tied to putting their mark on the product without being burdened by knowledge. (Because they'll want to change something regardless of the state)

edgineer•2h ago
It doesn't have to a mistake, it could be any other detail that you know would be disagreed with.

Comedy sketch writers would write a throwaway that was too off the wall to air, then include it in their proposal among others to make sure their darlings made it through.

I'm also reminded of the story of the Tetris contract in which a revision of the contract had an important change of a few words, and also an increase of some other fee. This fee change stole the attention and hid the other more insidious revision.

jkaptur•2h ago
I've heard this called "A Duck"

https://blog.codinghorror.com/new-programming-jargon/#:~:tex...

bee_rider•1h ago
Do people actually do this? It seems silly and childish. Although I’ve never had a boss that needed to find an error.
Cantinflas•1h ago
I was taught to always speak up in every meeting by my boss at that time. Always, no matrer what, I had to come up with something.

If you do that, you'd do me a favour.

portaouflop•16m ago
Do you mean the babble hypothesis? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babble_hypothesis
cerved•35m ago
It's extremely common in graphic design because it's so easy for everyone to have an opinion.
zer00eyz•1h ago
The better version of this is to deliver something so big, that no one will read it. Put the good, the bad and the ugly in it. Make it huge, make it read like a mastrubatory PHD thesis...

The printed version, should, if dropped on a desk from about a foot, make a thud.

Then write the summary that is short, sweet, to the point, and nothing but glowing.

Every one will just smile and nod and agree with you.

cornuto•1h ago
Reminiscent of the Philip K. Dick short story "War Game":

https://philipkdickreview.wordpress.com/2014/06/04/war-game/

djtango•9m ago
Reminds me a bit of the story about "bird mode" at google

[0] https://mashable.com/article/google-maps-origin-story-satell...

eviks•28m ago
> it is about being able to point somewhere and say "There! I did that."

This doesn't explain much since you can do that without personally arguing about the colors

JoshTriplett•22m ago
Wrong URL; it should be https://blue.bikeshed.com/

Or perhaps https://steelblue.bikeshed.com/ .

(For those who haven't seen, the site accepts any CSS color as a subdomain.)

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Why should I care what color the bikeshed is? (1999)

https://www.bikeshed.com/
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