Genuinely curious, as that isn’t the case for any of my ICE vehicles.
The lift was rather small and you couldn't get out of the car easily when you placed the car in the correct position for the lift's arms. We placed the car about a meter from the correct position, got out, pushed it forward and placed the arms.
For this to work you need to make sure the parking brakes are not engaged.
I'm all for the careful oldschool way.
But honestly I do that simply for the peace of mind :) A soothing personal idiosyncrasy inherited from my dad.
The thing people might forget is to clear the corrosion off of the wheel and hub which can be a problem if it breaks away as you drive.
Chocks, deflating a tire or two, parking against a tree or another car with a working parking brake, ratchet strap through the wheel spokes to something solid, etc, etc, where there's a will there's a way.
But yes, YT have plenty documentaries on that, together with "hydraulic jack is enough, I won't bother with jack stands"
For future reference.
> Forced to raise their game, carmakers are only now realizing they cannot repeat past mistakes such as letting others build up parts and services businesses off the back of their core product. "They stole the business from us," Martinet says, referencing as an example windshield replacement companies. "So I don't want them to steal the next one."
Xavier Martinet is the President and CEO of Hyundai Motor Europe.
https://www.wired.com/story/the-global-car-reckoning-is-here...
In the rest of the world, with Korean-produced vehicles, they do much better
I sometimes tell myself maybe I should buy an EV, but then realize I can drive this thing for another 50k miles, which I'll probably end up doing.
I want to be clear that I know what I'm doing around cars and an meticulous with regular maintenance, so this wasn't caused by neglect.
Doing some research online, it turns out this happens to pretty much all of them at some point after the warranty is up. There is also a separate issue with these engines where they randomly grenade themselves which caused a class action lawsuit.
These issues are so common that you simply cannot buy a replacement engine from Hyundai, because there are no more left. There are remanufactured ones available, but they cost more than the car is likely worth, even before labor.
All my cars are Honda or Toyota from now on.
Older ones (Kona) has reduction gear with some design flaw and Hyundai recommend changing its oil. Aaaaand it fails right at around 100k when most warranties lapse (cleverly their 8yr warranty is only for battery - likely most reliable component).
Bonus: just seen today Mercedes EQS has a motor seal design issue that at around 120kkm causes coolant intrusion. Tesla had same issue, but at least it was permanently fixable (aka coolant delete).
Meanwhile, my Toyota is having its first major problem, it's age twelve, and I'm hoping to drive it until it's old enough to drive.
They're not talking about making money selling broken shit. They're talking about forcing you to give them a cut every time you do normal service things with the product (something they have much more fine grained control over).
They're angry that Jiffy Lube exists, not that autobody shops exist.
IDK about the European market but US OEMs don't really want to be in the business of fixing things. GM for example DGAF about dealer service departments. They're happy to sell replacement parts and make pennies doing it but they see themselves as being in the new cars and car financing business. When they sell shit that breaks they don't do it so you can pay to fix it. They'd much rather the dealer try to sell you a new car.
Economists have a term for this called "rent-seeking", and even endorsed by society at large at time, such as land speculation and NIMBYism.
This has close parallels to hyperscalers hosting open source software and the authors being salty about to the point of relicensing.
Is that capitalism itself, once at the top, encourages and benefits neo-feudalism.
Feudalism itself is the creation of 'city states' where the lord has all the power over his subjects, and then does token nice things for them. Neo because it uses computers with DRM to enforce the real owner's wishes, instead of guards or servants.
Now we see all the biggies engaging in this techno-feudalism because people are trapped into ecosystems, or people did not understand what a "sale" really meant (it was IMHO, a fraudulent sale). And international laws thatcame out from the US's DMCA are a specific reason why this is even allowed to exist.
Competition is considered good by proponents if capitalism. But when you're on top, competition means to take you down a notch. So, erecting walls and feudalist digital-states is how you stay on top.
Laws are how we can start attacking these horrific structures. But at least for 3 more years in the USA, I'm not seeing it. Hell, we can't even hold fast with 'keep ACA benefits', let alone pro-human laws.
So I'll give them a lot of latitude to put this right. But, they do need to put this right.
This article feels like half the story. Is this only a repair you can get done at a Hyundai dealer, or can you take it to any shop? Ostensibly that shop must have the Hyundai equipment, requiring you to purchase an expensive piece of equipment, so even technically this completely fails right to repair. And I don't think car dealers are explaining this when they sell you the vehicle. You don't realize until you take it in for service that you may need to buy a subscription for brake pads, or pay through the nose if you go to another shop because the equipment is expensive.
If anything, this is a very blinking, loud, and glaring sign above Hyundai cars: DO NOT BUY.
So Hyundai just upped the game and put some subscription into their service software. Definitely not a consumer friendly move, as changing pads and even disks is not that hard.
I for one would love to know if a manufacturer requires expensive hidden costs for services that amount to vendor lock-in. It seems like yet another industry moving into the scammy business model like airlines and hotels, where the prices they show you are never they price you pay.
Then the different kind of maintenance can be split into sections with warnings about implications of each setting/action.
> https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a6-s6-c6-platform-discussio...
"Yes. You need vag to disable the electronic parking brake in the rear. The piston cannot be pressed into the caliper if the park brake is not disabled. "
Started with FCA/Stellantis in 2018+, thanks to the Jeep "hack" through the infotainment system. They slapped a "secure gateway" on the CANbus you had to authenticate through.
They then took that system, refined it into "AutoAuth", an "independent" authority that controls access to the SGWs for "automakers".
AutoAuth is for FCA, Stellantis, and some new Nissans (apparently the 2020+ Sentra?).
VW and Mercedes also have their own "secure gateway" bullshit as well.
--
As for this Hyundai situation, there is a workaround. Unfortunately, it's the "more expensive" option.
People are using J2534 "passthrough" dongle devices to work with automotive service software. J2534 is an SAE standard for ECU programming, and thus there's a large market of cheap and expensive dongles to interface with OE software that allows J2534 "generic" access to program modules.
That's what Hyundai is protecting with the NASTF login.
If you spent even more money and bought a genuine Hyundai vehicle communications interface (VCI) pod, you could have just used the normal Hyundai GDS and accessed all the brake service functions instead of the "lower cost" J2534 generic access. It'd slide right past the NASTF stuff, and the only time you'd even be asked for NASTF is actually touching the immobilizer.
All of this at the end of the day is because cheap-ass scan tools can, with the right software, be a one-click Kia Boyz solution to perform an "all keys lost" procedure, program in a new transponder key, and run off with your car.
Think you’ve got that backwards. Typically it is older cars that get stolen. 13 years old is new enough it should be harder to steal, but for joyriding or as a vehicle for doing other crimes the thieves are not looking for a new car.
That said, I have (lease) an Ionic 5 and it's the best freaking car I've ever driven by a mile. Some of the features on these things should have been on ICE cars a decade ago -- they're not unique to EVs -- but car companies thrive on product stagnation until someone raises the bar and they're forced to "me too".
you gonna pay for it either new or brand-new but they don't have that kinda nonsense.
my only gripe with toyota | lexus is they keep raising prices yet offering the same product year in year out cz they know people looking for a reliable car don't really have alternatives.
Is there such a thing as an open source vehicle? Or some approximation of that? Are there manufacturers that are more open to this than others? I realize that giving full control over a 2-ton speeding machine to users might not be the best idea, but surely there is some middle ground here. Or is the only option to buy/use cars built before the "smart" era?
Mid-century domestics. You can buy almost all the parts of one from the aftermarket, as long as it has 8 cylinders and is RWD.
The law works exactly as designed. Independent shops have the ability to service these cars without any problems, even the hardware mentioned is not a problem, since it works with all cars following the standard.
This isn't a hurdle for "real shops" or DIYers. It's a hurdle for Jiffy Lube type shops that can't make having teenagers poke around with test probes official procedure.
A lot of mechanics don't even look in software and probe them regardless because fuck getting out your scan tool, groping around in the footwell, plugging in, cycling through menus, trying not to get anything dirty in the process, etc, etc, all for something that can be done from the wheel well where the brake job is already being performed.
People who want to push for EV adoption would be well served pushing for open standards, right to repair, interoperability etc to people can buy an encumbered car that’s actually for them and not just a “vehicle” for companies to screw them (the way basically every product is now).
I actually would go further and say that that the existing choice to require that only some people can change lock codes is part of the problem here even though the reporter can't be expected to know that.
For hardware locks it was only practical to attempt physical access control. The only guy who can buy the weird blanks for this high end key with moving magnets inside it has a Locksmith business, so he's probably not going to also be a burglar, life is just too short. But for electronic locks we can just choose to design the software to allow the keyholder to change what they want and only require authorization when you do not have a key - so as to allow dealers to e.g. unlock a legitimately seized vehicle and give it to a new owner.
Unfortunately, most people don't care about this stuff, so the companies that don't do it don't really pay a penalty.
The standards are there and the interoperability works. The only thing which remains is that Hyundai is locking features for professionals only. None of this is EV specific by the way.
There are some hardware workarounds in some cases like spoofing auth with a 3rd party device permanently attached to the CANBUS, or desoldering and manipulating the chips used by the ECU for storage, but it's a massive hassle.
The cheapest OBD-II reader one can use with the Hyundai, per TFA, is ~$800, and Hyundai's required-for-this-job software subscription is $60/week.
Needing tools is fine, but the cost is ballooning, and the ladder for starting work at home, and learning, is being pulled up.
Sure, one needs tools
My VW Passat hybrid did not even let me change the cooling fluid myself because it is also used to cool the battery. In fact anything remotely tied to the high voltage battery is not user serviceable, and dealers are only allowed to replace instead of repair.
And this car is from 2015 so the enshittification started there already.
I would want to see a bit of data before concluding that it is useless to do that.
With brake on it's not uncommon for them to stick to the brake disk coz of rust + humidity, at best it will be PITA to get it moving again, at worst it will do some damage.
Also, BMW puts the battery in the trunk for a reason. It's for weight distribution. So I'll le them get away with it.
So the battery “registration” resets this adaptation, just like you’re supposed to reset the adaptation on a UPS when you change the batteries. Needing an OBD tool is slightly annoying, but does not feel like a vendor-locking scenario.
[1] would be family's 2nd car. We have another recent car with all the online crap, I hate it
Some random Suzuki on a platform that they're dearth to refresh and that primarily garners 3rd world sales is gonna grow "fuck you pay me" features a lot later than a 4Runner, or whatever else 200k+ households buy when they pop out a kid these days.
You need to do your research on a per model basis, generalizations won't help unless you're familiar enough with how that OEM does things to take an educated guess in which case you probably don't need the generalization in the first place.
For comparison, Teslas do not require purchase of their software for basic maintenance, the service mode that is accessible to the user is amazing, has so many diagnostics tools available for free.
Oh and by the way, from my experience Teslas don’t ever need brake pads replaced unless you are taking the car to the track. I suspect the same is true for most other EVs.
I believe you have to own a car and log in to access all of this stuff.
Not my classiest comment, but I figured someone would get a chuckle from it.
Now that you've mentioned it, I'm wondering if the auto manufacturers needed to get a bunch of regulators to drop secondary/emergency braking requirements in order to do this?
Sometimes its front/rear and sometimes it is diagonal, but it should still do the emergency trick.
Just wanted to add, a EPB used for emergency stop in his scenario is just using the regular stopping brakes, its not an emergency brake either.
This is false. Have you ever tried it? I can say from experience they will stop a moving car.
In my part of Europe it's the main issue for technical inspections, as most people drive automatic and we don't have hills, so we just put it in P when we park. The handbrake rarely gets used.
I would suggest that anybody reading NOT try this unless you have a quite large and empty lot with no public access. Pay close attention, they are not called Emergency Brakes, they are called Parking Brakes.
The stated purpose of these brakes are to ensure your car wont roll away while parked. Anybody with a manual transmission knows the ritual of shifting into 1 or Reverse and turning their wheels toward the curb while parked even while the parking brake is engaged.
They won't serve you in an emergency. Here's Mitch Hedberg on "Emergency brake": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMKV1B0vuI8
https://www.nationwide.com/lc/resources/auto-insurance/artic...
I'd think if it would be cheaper to leave it manual they would.
But I'm appalled at more and more choices that make cars more error-prone in emergency.
I'd never want brake by wire car. Even if the mechanical reliability would be the same, one coding error and brakes are gone
An EV "needs" the electric actuator to replicate the park position in a conventional automatic transmission. The motor has no mechanical brake so the parking brake is automatically applied via software. Once you can do that why run the cable?
There's som minor addition value in sharing the system with ICE models that don't need it and programming them to cycle the system from time to time so that they don't rust up and stop working like cables are inclined to in automatic equipped cars.
In case of electronic/hydraulic failure when driving. If you want to replace the park position of a transmission, then they should do that with something that actually mimics that. You could use a sprocket and pawl on the motor output shaft.
Noteworthy fact: most early automatic transmissions had no park position. Like a manual, you put them in neutral and set the parking brake instead.
I'm willing to bet in just 5 years fully break-by-wire systems (aka no hydraulics) will be 2x more reliable.
EVs also have very powerful motor braking that can get the car to a stop if the hydraulic brakes are busted.
This is unacceptable. Another commenter has pointed out the unbelievable level of entitlelment of the current boss of hyundai. China is rapidly eroding the sales of established manufacturers. They in turn are tapping in to a new cash cow and i'm not even sure it won't work for them at least in the short term.
To clarify one thing brake disks need much less replacing on electric vehicles, which means it will hurt consumers less.
As I get older, I’m sure I’ll pay instead. But I feel the ladder is being drawn up— my young adult kids won’t have much of a choice. The shade tree mechanic life is becoming a thing of the past.
My 16-year-old did a complete front brake service that way. The only thing I had to help with was pumping the brakes for the bleed.
As much as all these industries would love to make pennies here and there, they all loathe the idea that people can do things without giving them a cut even more.
I am a "customer". I think about purchases, research if its sufficient, and will actively walk away if the deal is garbage.
At this time, all electric cars seem to be a DRM ridden hellscape, and/or a surveillance platform on wheels, and/or 100% remote control by mothership, and/or subscription hellscape (heated seats, better battery).
I'll take my ICE mostly mechanical cars thankyouverymuch, as they are more repairable.
I'm following the body of capitalist thought, as you can see here:
https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/consu...
They are demonstrably very different. And from a 10000 foot view, consumers are reactionary and impulsive and easier to control.
Customers are the ones who give thought in how they purchase.
Trying to read through several perspectives. Does Korea not value DIY repairs on cars? Is the world so litigious now that a carmaker would be sued for a poorly executed DIY fix?
GuestFAUniverse•2mo ago
I detest that sentiment. The brake handles I had to use sooner or later were too soft, no matter the maintenance. So, I started to pull as strong as possible because otherwise the cars weren't standing still on steep hills -- I never had that issue with electric parking brakes; I love that.
bob1029•2mo ago
I've had to instruct several family members and friends to engage their parking brake when on my very steep driveway. We had to shove a car up the hill to get it out of park one time. Leaving 2 tons of car resting entirely on the parking pawl can cause trouble. I always lecture drivers to let the brake take the load before putting transmission into park (or a low gear). It can be challenging to do this with digital everything.
netsharc•2mo ago
tehwebguy•2mo ago
nmeofthestate•2mo ago
wkjagt•2mo ago
cenamus•2mo ago
toxik•2mo ago
cenamus•2mo ago
cartoonworld•2mo ago
If that doesn't work you hit it with a hammer from the other side until the parking brake shoes pop out of the pins and come off with the rotor.
somat•2mo ago
meindnoch•2mo ago
userbinator•2mo ago
That sounds like they weren't adjusted correctly.
westmeal•2mo ago
GuestFAUniverse•2mo ago
Lanolderen•2mo ago
AngryData•2mo ago