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It's your fault my laptop knows where I am

https://www.amoses.dev/blog/wifi-location/
54•nicosalm•1h ago

Comments

ralsei•1h ago
Good article, but you could also just use a VPN to trick it.
wsces•57m ago
No, a VPN would only change the source IP of your request which the author specifically states isn't how this system works: the browser uses its host OS' Location Services to self report its location based on GPS or Wi-Fi AP locations.

That said, I hope the service doesn't implicitly trust data sent by untrusted clients like web browsers, otherwise someone could just use something like this to send it a false location: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/spoof-geolocation/i...

ralsei•54m ago
Ohh. Yeah I suppose that's what I meant. I thought a VPN also spoofed the location
oceanplexian•45m ago
Even if the browser was super locked down you could trivially spoof a few SSIDs broadcast from the desired area in theory..
DrawTR•42m ago
The SSID (name, like the article mentions) is different than the bSSID (mac address of the access point), so I don't think it would be that easy to spoof.
1bpp•34m ago
Shouldn't be any harder than the name.
DrawTR•7m ago
Do most consumer APs/routers allow you to just change the MAC address on the fly? I don't think the ones I've owned have ever allowed that. But that would certainly be interesting to try (if you were somewhere without any other address interference that would tip it off)
bitwize•41m ago
A device can triangulate its own location locally, given the WiFi hotspots around it, and transmit that information via a JavaScript API. A VPN won't flummox this mechanism.
IshKebab•3m ago
Some simple Tampermonkey patching would though.
pkulak•1h ago
I use a Firefox preference to pin my location to a spot near, but not at, my house:

user_pref("geo.provider.network.url", 'data:application/json,{"location": {"lat": 45.0, "lng": -122.0}, "accuracy": 128.0}');

I _believe_ this also stops wifi data from leaking anywhere.

denysvitali•49m ago
I've recently vibe-coded "where-am-i", a small CLI that returns your approximate location using the technology described here.

https://github.com/denysvitali/where-am-i

Tbh, I think this geolocation method is amazing, and I'm grateful it exists, because GPS indoor really sucks.

jbmchuck•22m ago
Honest question - what's your use case for needing GPS indoors? I generally know where I am when I'm indoors :)
HPsquared•2m ago
It's useful in, say, a large shopping mall, airport or car park.
denysvitali•1m ago
Maybe indoors is the wrong term: as soon as you don't have direct sky visibility it's relatively hard to get a position.

Some examples: on a train, on the underground, in a train station, in a mall, ...

mingus88•1m ago
Not OP but navigating large malls, subway terminals, etc is nice
p1necone•46m ago
Is it common for North American universities to take attendance? Seems like a whole lot of effort to gain little and infantilize your students. They're paying tuition, and if they don't show up to class they get punished by not learning enough and subsequently failing their exams/assessments. And if they don't fail their exams/assessments then clearly mandating lecture attendance for them wasn't necessary anyway.
savanaly•36m ago
If you require attendance to graduate, then your degree signals conformity and grit, and thus has some value to show to employers who care about those stats but can't really measure them any other way.
dataflow•35m ago
I think it's worth pondering why you feel paying tuition enters the assessment of the situation. The justification would seem to stand on its own either way, right? Or would your opinion change if tuition was free?
wrs•35m ago
I was punished by getting into grad school, going to the "meet the faculty" party, and having my Algorithms professor greet me with "oh, you're the one who never came to class". (I can't resist pointing out, now that it's safe, that it seemed like his TA taught quite a few of his classes...)
foltik•32m ago
In my experience it’s common for large intro level classes. While I personally never liked these policies, I do think it’s beneficial to the average student to incentivize attendance. Think 18 year olds who aren’t able to self regulate or fully understand the consequences until it’s too late. A “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality just hurts the average quality of education.
renewiltord•23m ago
You misunderstand. The customer is the government, which pays for student education through 'student loans'. The government is an absentee farmer who pays a farm labourer to produce a crop many years in the future. The labourer would rather take the money and plant nothing, so the absentee landlord farmer wants him to send photos of the seed being planted.

But why won't the crop grow on its own? It is strongly incentivized to live! And yet it does not. So you need to send photos of tilling the soil, planting the seed, watering, so that one day we might come there and see a harvested crop.

ginko•36m ago
Maybe it’s because I studied in Austria where universities generally provide very little handholding to students but I don’t understand the point of compulsory attendance in university lectures. If students think they can pass exams without attending the lectures then they should be able to do that. I certainly did that once or twice when I realized I needed some more credits before the end of the term. It’s a different thing with lab/exercise sessions but your lack of participation there would be noticed anyway.
shortrounddev2•4m ago
Compulsory attendance used to be far less common in colleges, but teenagers in America mature far more slowly than they used to and undergrads are still effectively children. Universities need to babysit them or they'll wreck the dropout rate
michaelt•2m ago
My university didn't take attendance either, but some in my country do. As I understand it, the reasons are:

1. Some students think they can skip class and catch up through self-study, but actually they can't. The same I'd-rather-be-partying attitude that stops them attending lectures also stops them finding time to self-study. College is the first time students' time management is put to the test, and some students can't handle it. Giving them some external motivation to get out of bed does them a favour, in the long term.

2. Some governments require certain reporting to ensure people getting student visas are, in fact, students. Taking attendance for foreign students is one way to satisfy this.

3. When someone fails a course they'll often lodge an appeal. Perhaps they'll say the course was badly taught, or the exam covered material that wasn't in the lectures. Knowing whether the student attended the lectures helps adjudicate such complaints fairly.

A highly ranked university that attracts smart, self-motivated students has less reason to take attendance - whereas a university with lots of students skipping class, failing and complaining has more reason.

incompatible•30m ago
My PC doesn't have any wireless connections and the Geolocation API always fails. I guess I'd fail this course (which is apparently correct, as I was supposed to be attending in person with a laptop.)

Edit: Presumably it would be possible to hack the browser to return a false position.

Edit: Make it a convenient browser add-on, perhaps. There must be other applications.

Edit: pkulak points out that you just have to set a Firefox option. Why do I even comment on things I know nothing about.

neilv•16m ago
The root problem is that a lot of higher education is nurturing a culture of cheaters right now.

Your future doctors, scientists, government officials, etc... will have had to compete and gain coveted academic and career opportunities, in an environment that both has been heavily gamified, and is being overrun by cheaters.

Insulting measures like this TopHat practically endorses the culture of cheating, by telling students that they can't be trusted, and turning into yet another cheating challenge/task.

Schools with any integrity should be bending over backwards to find, nurture, and support students of integrity.

And to save those who only got admitted by being sketchy, but first semester is a chance to unlearn the bad lessons from before.

Not by treating them as criminals to be monitored, but by treating them like the respectable people they should aspire to be, and which the school expects and requires that they be.

And, for any hopelessly shitty students, who fail to honor this first semester extension of trust, the school should smack them to the curb. Lost tuition income, lost named buildings/chairs, and expensive lawsuits from helicopter parents, be damned.

rtpg•1m ago
I thought that schools were pretty strict on plagiarism etc when it's brought up? Like "you can't apologize your way through it"

The US has the weird dynamics of donor systems (how I would love to see legacy admissions burn to the ground once and for all....) which causes ways around it, but isn't it pretty universal to say "you're not allowed to cheat, if you are caught cheating you instantly fail the class" in most uni systems?

IshKebab•1m ago
TL;DR: location API exists. Wifi-based location exists. American universities apparently use this to take "secure" attendance.

Loose wire leads to blackout, contact with Francis Scott Key bridge

https://www.ntsb.gov:443/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20251118.aspx
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It's your fault my laptop knows where I am

https://www.amoses.dev/blog/wifi-location/
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