Races with mutexes can indicate the author either doesn't understand or refuses to engage with Go's message based concurrency model. You can use mutexes but I believe a lot of these races can be properly avoided using some of the techniques discussed in the go programming language book.
He complains that language design offers no way of avoiding it (in this particular case) and relies only on human or ide. Humans are not perfect and should not be a requirement to write good code.
I feel like Java's IDE support is best in class. I feel like go is firmly below average.
Like, Java has great tooling for attaching a debugger, including to running processes, and stepping through code, adding conditional breakpoints, poking through the stack at any given moment.
Most Go developers seem to still be stuck in println debugging land, akin to what you get in C.
The gopls language server generally takes noticeably more memory and cpu than my IDE requires for a similarly sized java project, and Go has various IDE features that work way slower (like "find implementations of this interface").
The JVM has all sorts of great knobs and features to help you understand memory usage and tune performance, while Go doesn't even have a "go build -debug" vs "go build -release" to turn on and off optimizations, so even in your fast iteration loop, go is making production builds (since that's the only option), and they also can't add any slow optimizations because that would slow down everyone's default build times. All the other sane compilers I know let you do a slower release build to get more performance.
The Go compiler doesn't emit warnings, insisting that you instead run a separate tool (govet), but since it's a separate tool you now have to effectively compile the code twice just to get your compiler warnings, making it slower than if the compiler just emit warnings.
Go's cgo tooling is also far from best in class, with even nodejs and ruby having better support for linking to C libraries in my opinion.
Like, it's incredibly impressive that Go managed to re-invent so many wheels so well, but they managed to reach the point where things are bearable, not "best in class".
I think the only two languages that achieved actually good IDE tooling are elisp and smalltalk, kinda a shame that they're both unserious languages.
Please show us how to write that cleanly with channels, since clearly you understand channels better than the author.
I think the golang stdlib authors could use some help too, since they prefer mutexes for basically everything (look at sync.Map, it doesn't spin off a goroutine to handle read/write requests on channels, it uses a mutex).
In fact, almost every major go project seems to end up tending towards mutexes because channels are both incredibly slow, and worse for modeling some types of problems.
... I'll also point out that channels don't save you from data-races necessarily. In rust, passing a value over a channel moves ownership, so the writer can no longer access it. In go, it's incredibly easy to write data-races still, like for example the following is likely to be a data-race:
handleItemChannel <- item
slog.Debug("wrote item", "item", item) // <-- probably races because 'item' ownership should have been passed along.A lot of developers without much (or any) Rust experience get the impression that the Rust Borrow checker is there to prevent memory leaks without requiring garbage collection, but that's only 10% of what it does. Most the actual pain dealing with borrow checker errors comes from it's other job: preventing data races.
And it's not only Rust. The first two examples are far less likely even in modern Java or Kotlin for instance. Modern Java HTTP clients (including the standard library one) are immutable, so you cannot run into the (admittedly obvious) issue you see in the second example. And the error-prone workgroup (where a single typo can get you caught in a data race) is highly unlikely if you're using structured concurrency instead.
These languages are obviously not safe against data races like Rust is, but my main gripe about Go is that it's often touted as THE language that "Gets concurrency right", while parts of its concurrency story (essentially things related to synchronization, structured concurrency and data races) are well behind other languages. It has some amazing features (like a highly optimized preemptive scheduler), but it's not the perfect language for concurrent applications it claims to be.
As for Java, there are fibers/virtual threads now, but I know too little of them to comment on them. Go's green thread story is presumably still good, also relative to most other programming languages. Not that concurrency in Java is bad, it has some good aspects to it.
[0]: An example is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45898923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903586 , both for the same article.
However, are Go programs not supposed to typically avoid sharing mutable data across goroutines in the first place? If only immutable messages are shared between goroutines, it should be way easier to avoid many of these issues. That is of course not always viable, for instance due to performance concerns, but in theory can be done a lot of the time.
I have heard others call for making it easier to track mutability and immutability in Go, similar to what the author writes here.
As for closures having explicit capture lists like in C++, I have heard some Rust developers saying they would also have liked that in Rust. It is more verbose, but can be handy.
That said, i think about all languages have their own quirks and footguns. I think people sometimes forget that tools are just that, tools. Go is remarkably easy to be productive in which is what the label on the tin can claims.
It isnt “fearless concurrency” but get shit done before 5 pm because traffics a bitch on Wednesdays
To feel productive in.
bilbo-b-baggins•1h ago
“A million ways to segfault in C” and its just the author assigning NULL to a pointer and reading it, then proclaiming C would be better if it didn’t have a NULL value like Rust.
I’m mad I read that. I want a refund on my time.
speedgoose•1h ago
landr0id•46m ago
>I have been writing production applications in Go for a few years now. I like some aspects of Go. One aspect I do not like is how easy it is to create data races in Go.
Their examples don't seem terribly convoluted to me. In fact, Uber's blog post is quite similar: https://www.uber.com/blog/data-race-patterns-in-go/
kryptiskt•16m ago
Like, rightly or wrongly, Go chose pervasive mutability and shared memory, it inevitably comes with drawbacks. Pretending they don't exist doesn't make them go away.