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The Undermining of the CDC

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/12/08/the-undermining-of-the-cdc
44•bookofjoe•51m ago

Comments

bookofjoe•51m ago
https://archive.ph/auQhC
baggy_trough•20m ago
> The privilege that American scientists have taken for granted—one that is now being trampled—is the ability to go about their work free of political interference.

Hilariously blinkered.

jfengel•13m ago
It really did work like that. Government agencies in general are largely insulated from politics. You do your day to day work and wouldn't even notice a change of administration.

The political appointees set the overall direction, and so projects come and go -- more or less at the same rate as they do even under the same administration.

Having the President interfere so directly with ongoing operations is unprecedented. Maybe that's a good thing; people wanted a change and they got it. But it's not usual.

epistasis•17m ago
For there to be democracy, there must be accountability. For there to be accountability, there must be some sense of truth, and under that some sense of trust of each other.

What we have seen happen over the past decade is quite similar what happened in Russia in decades before it: complete dismantling of trust, of the idea of truth, of the idea of honesty or integrity. And in that space of uncertainty, a new sort of ruling class is enabled to control the population.

Anti-vaxxers used to be a tiny minority, and living in a crunchy leftish area, they were concentrated around me, and I got into arguments with them all the time. Now, they are no longer leftists, they are MAHA/MAGA, because their fundamental view of the world is not left/right, it's authority/antiauthority. Vaccines were rejected as much because of the idea of an authority "knowing stuff" as it is about the ickiness of something impure being injected into the body, as much as they love the idea of "everything natural" including "natural" infectious disease.

We've destroyed the idea of expertise and authority based on knowledge that's open to anybody who wants to put in the time to learn, and replaced it with authority that exists merely because it hated the past authority, and became what it hated.

NotGMan•14m ago
>> For there to be democracy, there must be accountability. For there to be accountability, there must be some sense of truth, and under that some sense of trust of each other.

When doctors questioned vaccine safety studies they were mocked and ostracized. Which is the opposite of truth seeking you think was going on.

javier2•7m ago
No, it wasn't, and these extremely marginal results got way too much attention compared to the millions of results showing all the valuable results from broad vaccination.
epistasis•6m ago
You are not being honest, but you are trying to your best to undermine the idea of honesty.

Every vaccine safety study was questioned and examined, thoroughly.

Introducing this idea of "mocked and ostracized," is a rhetorical tactic to try to establish the idea of some sort of mistreated people that other mistreated people can identify with. It's not based in truth of how the scientific community worked. If there's "mocking and ostracization" then it's in some sort of other social space, not in the evaluation of the vaccine safety studies.

And by trying to conflate these two areas, you are trying to undermine the very idea of truth seeking, and replace it with this weird vibes-based in-group/out-group emotionally-based judgements.

We need to pivot to rationality, and away from in-group/out-group analysis. Let's evaluate claims on their merits, not based on who is making them.

mhb•9m ago
The "we" who forfeited the trust of the country were the experts, like Fauci, who thought people were too stupid to understand any nuance of a situation. Maybe he had the same well-intentioned and misguided notions as rent control advocates who are myopically willing to trade long term well-being for short term expedience. Or maybe he was as arrogant as he seemed and believed he knew better than everyone else.
api•9m ago
“Trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback.”

In my life there have been two huge destructions of public trust.

The first was the Iraq war, which could only be the result of either bald faced lies or gross incompetence or both. We blundered into the desert and set a trillion dollars and countless lives on fire and have nothing to show for it. Tons of people across the spectrum knew this was a terrible idea and were silenced or ignored.

The other was the 2008 bank bailouts. The problem isn’t that the state stepped in to avert a depression. The problem is that they did it by handing the very people who caused the crash a bonus and a promotion and then proceeded to reinflate the housing bubble to lock two generations out of home ownership. The response was that the Eastern establishment saved itself at the expense of the country, or that’s how it looked to a ton of people all across the country and the political spectrum including myself.

There have been smaller cuts but those are the big obvious ones.

You could never get a Trump or an RFK Jr without these two things.

Unfortunately these two characters are not reformers. They are vultures. They are frauds and con men dining on the corpse of trust.

I’m not Russian but I imagine that the failure of the Soviet regime and the hollowness of its propaganda did a number on trust over there, and that Putin and his allies are likewise vultures.

conradev•6m ago
We also subjected a lot of the population to vaccine mandates in order to retain their employment. That makes sense for some workers, sure, but it bred a lot of resentment toward authority.
NotGMan•16m ago
Doctors should wear pharma sponsorships on their coats like Formula 1 drivers do. Would put things into perspective.
epistasis•11m ago
They do, on their publications. It's all there. And it's not as pervasive as you might think.

I remember a very famous cancer researcher who destroyed his career by not disclosing these relationships:

https://cancerletter.com/the-cancer-letter/20180914_1/

Now, he's on the extreme end because no other cancer researcher has ever gotten quite that much, as far as I know. But there aren't even accusations that he gave favorable results to any drugs form companies that sponsored him, as far as I have every heard, it was merely that he didn't disclose that destroyed his career.

This is a level of honesty and transparency that does not exist in most of society, and we should be proud in the US that science is so clean compared to every other aspect of our society.

And for all the big money, pharma is far far more honest than grifters like those in the anti-vaxxer space who do not disclose how they are making their money, and who do directly benefit from pushing unproven experimental treatments that do not go through the same rigorous vetting that standard pharma does.

matkoniecz•8m ago
> The privilege that American scientists have taken for granted—one that is now being trampled—is the ability to go about their work free of political interference.

Communism style solutions ("it is better to have everyone being extremely poor, rather than having some poor and some rich people") is a terrible solution. Trampling on everyone group because other group got trampled before is not a solution at all.

But claiming that there were no problems whatsoever and no political interference at all is a really dubious claim.

whateveracct•5m ago
I think you're taking issue with the wrong thing here lol. There may have been something before (it's the real world after all), but what RFK is doing is quite frankly insane.

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