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Apple's Slow AI Pace Becomes a Strength as Market Grows Weary of Spending

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-slow-ai-pace-becomes-104658095.html
43•bgwalter•1h ago

Comments

cmiles8•1h ago
Behind is the new ahead.
meepmorp•57m ago
Maybe not on the investment/new hotness side, but as a user I'm not clamoring for greater LLM integration. Maybe I'm a Luddite, though.
dizlexic•52m ago
Apple, so hip they're clinging to 2008.
Lalabadie•52m ago
They resisted (most of the) LLM boosterism and kept decent focus on SLMs that can run on-device.

I think the decision is first a self-serving one that's in line with how they want their devices and services to operate, but it also happens to be (in my opinion) the future-proof way of integrating consumer AI.

empath75•1h ago
Apple is probably going to be an AI consumer and not an AI producer and that is fine. Not everyone needs to be openai or anthropic.
jtbayly•56m ago
I assume they will produce their own AI once the dust settles, just like they produce their own chips now.

Apple has generally been a company that waits, gets criticized for being behind, and then produces a better version (more usable, better integrated, etc), claims it is new, and everybody buys it. Meanwhile a few people moan about how Apple wasn't actually the first to make it.

engcoach•38m ago
Old Apple wasn't run by ex-Microsoft and ex-consultancy MBAs... a serious cultural rot has set in and the much of the "bottom up" component powering much of the innovation is nothing but smoldering coals.

The golden goose is dead.

trymas•59m ago
Wasn’t it the same with covid hiring? While others over hired, Apple was modest in this position. Then everyone needed to significantly downsize, when Apple didn’t.
throw0101d•58m ago
This is from a financial market perspective.

From a user perspective it may not be a strength: users / customers may expect certain functionality that works accurately and responsively.

everdrive•57m ago
In other words, something they cannot get from AI?
smith7018•56m ago
Beyond Hacker News, I haven't seen anyone actively asking for AI features. People have been complaining about Siri for over a decade but it's not like users are turning against Apple because it isn't using an LLM (yet). Rather, it seems like users are increasingly wary of AI features being shoehorned into products they were already using.
tim333•45m ago
I'm in that boat - I'm basically fine without AI features. I can think of a couple of hypothetical things that would be nice though - a smart and functional Siri - I never use it at the moment, and maybe a locally hosted LLM that could look through my documents so I can ask where's that spreadsheet with the housing costs etc.
user34283•35m ago
Users weary about shoehorned AI features are probably all on Reddit or Hackernews.

I certainly never heard anyone complain in real life.

swatcoder•6m ago
The people I know in real life, besides those that work in tech and use it for code assistance or for generating never-reviewed archival transcripts of meetings, mostly just laugh at AI foibles and faults and casually echo doomer-media worries about job replacement as a topic for small talk.

But admittedly, most of those people are established adults who've figured out an effective rhythm to their home and work life and aren't longing for some magic remedy or disruption. They're not necessarily weary, and they were curious at first, but it seems like they're mostly just waiting for either the buzz to burn off or for some "it just works" product to finally emerge.

I imagine there are younger people wowed by the apparent magic of what we have now and excited that they might use it punch up the homework assignments or emails or texts that make them anxious, or that might enjoy toying with it as a novel tool for entertainment and creative idling. Maybe these are some of the people in your "real life"

There are a lot of people out there in "real life", bringing different perspectives and needs.

theturtletalks•15m ago
Apple originally planned to power Siri with ChatGPT under the hood. They quickly saw that other models, including open-source ones, were closing the gap fast.

A few months ago, MCP-style tool calling seemed like the clear standard. Now even Anthropic is shifting toward "code-mode" and reusable skills.

For Apple, reliable tool calling is critical because their AI needs to control apps and the whole device. My bet: Apple's AI will be able to create its own Shortcuts on the fly and call them as needed, with OSA Script support on Mac.

PKop•54m ago
Disagree. It's a win win. As an example, Windows and Microsoft would benefit users if they focused less on injecting useless Copilot everywhere, and more on maintenance and improvement of the core functionality of the OS while not squandering the human resource of their development teams by forcing them to work on these things; bad opportunity cost.

Not to say Apple isn't also degrading their OS with bad design changes, but "more AI" is not something users are clamoring for.

dizlexic•53m ago
From what I've seen AI isn't driving purchasing of consumer electronics. It's mainly a talking point for reviewers.
dominotw•52m ago
what functionality is this?

I am yet to see ai functionality ppl are dying for.

skeletal88•49m ago
No, i don't want AI on my phones OS. I dont want any ai search in phone settings or files or anything like this.

It would be like MS is forcing their copilot currently everywhere, it is totally useless and a nuisance.

user34283•32m ago
Copilot is useful for searching emails and SharePoint. It gives access to GPT-5 with Thinking, making it broadly useful for programming tasks.

It's certainly been useful in my organization.

goalieca•19m ago
Gmail search has been excellent for 20 years. Outlook search is still terrible even with copilot. LLM isn’t the killer feature, a search that works is.
nehal3m•54m ago
Looking at how others stuff AI into everything they can, user experience be damned, I’m kind of glad Apple was perfunctory in its jump on the bandwagon.
c16•54m ago
A good candidate for second mover advantage.

Let everyone else pay for the research and make the mistakes, find out what works and what doesn't. Apple already has the consumers, they might as well save a few (hundred?) bn in the process and later deploy something which doesn't tell you to glue your cheese to your pizza.

georgeecollins•40m ago
In theory yes, but a lot of the organizational reasons Siri is a flop are also similar to the reasons Apple Music loses to Spotify, Apple can't really get it together for ads.. I think Apple is a great company (disclosure : shareholder) but they have gotten so big and so stretched thin can't always take advantage of the opportunities in front of them.
wahnfrieden•37m ago
It is a management problem. It’s not because of size. Talk to people who’ve worked there…
kilroy123•21m ago
Thank you. All these people applauding Apple for not jumping on the bandwagon.

When in reality, they _wanted_ to but have become so dysfunctional organization wise, they weren't able to. Kind of funny how that worked out.

I still think they're really dropping the ball. They could have local models running on devices, interfacing with a big cloud partner (Google, OpenAI, etc.) Make Siri awesome. But no.

linkage•53m ago
lol

lmao, even

They are flat-out incompetent. Siri has somehow regressed over the years and visual intelligence only works in demos. They have the most abominable integration with ChatGPT imaginable.

At least the MLX team has been shipping an impressive product.

dominotw•51m ago
nah its fine. i don't need any of that shit, esp not on my phone.
Lalabadie•40m ago
I'd take a better Siri if it can happen on-device (for speed and privacy). They've been over-promising on Siri's capabilities for a decade at this point.
biophysboy•52m ago
I genuinely never understood why there was a narrative that Apple is "falling behind" when it comes to AI. They make phones, computers and an ecosystem of services to lock you in. None of this stuff is threatened by AI; with the right integration, it would enhance them!
wahnfrieden•42m ago
They delayed a new product category because of poor AI performance (the iPad/HomePod fusion device)

And they also got slapped with class action lawsuits for failing to meet promised AI capabilities in products they launched

It’s easy to understand from evidence like this why they are falling behind, even if you believe they will pull ahead later

nightski•41m ago
You said you don't understand it while explaining it in the second sentence. They don't have a decent integration, hence the vulnerability. Devices that do have a good to great AI experience will win in the long run imho.
biophysboy•26m ago
What integration features are they missing that people use/want? Genuinely not trying to be dismissive or stick my head in sand - I am out of the loop.
some-guy•40m ago
I do think Siri is particularly behind, but they were behind long before the AI craze. I also understand you cannot simply make Siri “be smart” with an LLM without all kinds of consequences and edge cases to deal with.

It’s not the same, but PMs and VPs at my company think we can vibe code our way out of migrating a 1.6 million line codebase to a newer language / technology. Or that our problems can be solved by acquiring an AI startup, whose front end looks exactly the same as every other AI startup’s front page, and slapping a new CSS file that looks like that startup on top of our existing SPA because their product doesn’t actually do anything. It’s an absurd world out there.

some_random•39m ago
The falling behind was shipping a low quality integration.
biophysboy•21m ago
What are some good quality AI integrations right now? The chat apps and the IDEs are sort of separate environments. A lot of "AI assistants" in other apps so far have been clunky/useless.
epoch1677•37m ago
That's not all, my macbook (48 GM VRAM) can run better local LLMs at a workable speed than my RTX 5090 rig can, plus Apple has MLX and neural engines.

The reason there was such a narrative is because Wall Street and Silicon Valley are both narrative machines with little regard for veracity, and they are also not that smart (at least according to people who successfully beat their system, such as Buffett).

"Warren, if people weren't so often wrong, we wouldn't be so rich." – the late great Charlie Munger.

smileson2•25m ago
yeah tbh it sometimes feels like a lot of moaning from those crowds is more about self-validation than anything concrete
biophysboy•15m ago
That's pretty cool! What are the advantages of using a local LLM currently? Do you tune them? I suppose it will be more enshittification proof..
meindnoch•51m ago
I don't want AI on my phone.
mattkrause•46m ago
I don’t want flaky, in-my-face AI on my phone.

I find a lot of the low-key things helpful: I use an app at the same time and place every day, and it’s nice to have a handy one-tap way to open it. It does a decent job organizing photos and letting me search text in screenshots.

rickdeckard•49m ago
Or, since the stock market is an emotional game (hear me out): Apple hasn't announced anything in the past year which caused comparable excitement and resulted in (further) overvaluation of their company like it happened on Microsoft, nVidia, etc.

Now, after a few months (!), reality sets in and those hyped-up investors realize that it's not as much of a short-term game as they told themselves it would be...

bell-cot•48m ago
Ah, the benefits of having a sober old CEO. And a business model that doesn't need to be buoyed nor stabilized by spinning and hyping a succession of hot new trends.
JSR_FDED•47m ago
Apple doesn’t own a search engine either, and gets $20B per year from Google to direct search queries to them.

I hope they adopt the same model with AI - leverage whatever frontier model is best and provide their own privacy infrastructure in front.

At some point Apple will figure out a way to provide the right info from your calendar, messages, email etc as context and couple this with a bunch of secure tools for creating calendar entries, etc. Agentic AI will then be something I personally benefit from.

wahnfrieden•39m ago
The search arrangement was deemed to be an illegal monopoly

https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/judge-puts-a-one-year-limi...

Limits are now being placed on it as of a couple days ago

JSR_FDED•33m ago
Perfect, let Apple spread it out over multiple AI providers - if that helps monopolies from forming in AI I’m all for it!
exabrial•45m ago
I mean also, AI is still just a "confident idiot". Even the latest iteration of models are wrong more than half the time.
convenwis•37m ago
This is the thing I've found amazing about people's complaints about Apple and AI.

Historically the strength of Apple was that they didn't ship things until they actually worked. Meaning that the technology was there and ready to make an experience that was truly excellent.

People have been complaining for years that Apple isn't shipping fast enough in this area. But if anything I think that they have been shipping (or trying to ship) too fast. There are a lot of scenarios that AI is actually great at but the ones that move the needle for Apple just aren't there yet in terms of quality.

The stuff that is at a scale that it matters to them are integrations that just magically do what you want with iMessage/calendars/photos/etc. There are potentially interesting scenarios there but the fact is that any time you touch my intimate personal (and work) data and do something meaningful I want it to work pretty much all the time. And current models aren't really there yet in my view. There are lots of scenarios that do work incredibly well right now (coding most obviously). But I don't think the Apple mainline ones do yet.

awestroke•36m ago
My complaint is that they overpromised and then didn't deliver anything at all. They should have just kept their mouth shut
nik736•34m ago
> Meaning that the technology was there and ready to make an experience that was truly excellent

In general I would agree, but Siri is honestly still so bad.

esafak•33m ago
When it came out in Google Assistant was delivering value while Siri was not.
some_random•32m ago
I really wish I lived in the world where Apple didn't ship things until they actually worked, that would be so cool.
rickdeckard•35m ago
It might as well be the visualization of the two strategies:

- Everyone else: "We mainly build huge AI compute clusters to process large amount of data and create value, at high cost for ramp-up and operation."

- Apple: "We mainly build small closed-down AI compute-chips we can control, sell them for-profit to individual consumers and then orchestrate data-processing on those chips, with setup and operational cost all paid by the consumer."

I can't think of any company which has comparable know-how and, most of all, a comparable sell-out scale to even consider Apple's strategy.

No matter what they do, they will sell hundreds of millions compute devices for the foreseeable future. They use this to build out AI infrastructure they control, pre-paid by the future consumers.

THIS is their unique strength.

toomuchtodo•14m ago
Sometimes doing nothing is the winning move.
pzo•3m ago
> We mainly build small closed-down AI compute-chips we can control, sell them for-profit to individual consumers and then orchestrate data-processing on those chips, with setup and operational cost all paid by the consumer

I wish they did but they don't. They have been for decade so stingy on RAM for iPhone and iPad. There are at current point that only small percent of their userbase have iPhone or iPad with 8GB RAM that somehow can run any AI models even open source and be of any use. Not mentioning they don't compare to big Models.

They don't even provide option to sell iPhone with bigger RAM. iPad can have max 16GB RAM. Those mainstream macbook air also can have max 32 GB RAM.

And for the current price of cheap online AI where e.g. perplexity provides so many promo for PRO version for like less $10 per year and all ai providers give good free models with enough rate limit for many users I don't see apple hardware like particularly bought because of AI compute-chips - at least not non-pro users.

If the loose AI though and because of that won't have good AI integrations they will loose also eventually in hardware. e.g. Polish language in Siri still not supported so my mum cannot use it. OSS Whisper v3 turbo was available ages ago but apple still support only few languages. 3rd party keyboard cannot integrate so well with audio input and all sux in this case because platform limitation.

yatopifo•33m ago
Apple's phones are responsible for most of their revenue. The phones are designed to pretty much exclusively interact with social media and take photos. AI doesn't really add anything to that experience since advertisement consumption by humans is the ultimate objective. That's why even though Apple's Siri has been about the most useless assistant in existence for years, Apple isn't in a rush to replace it. It simply doesn't have a big impact on their revenue.

Microsoft has been criticized for investing in AI heavily. But it actually makes sense for Microsoft if you consider the nature of their business. The problem is not with the investment per se but with what they got out of it. Unfortunately, Microsoft sucks at product management, so instead of creating useful stuff that users want and are ready to pay for, they created stuff that no one understands, no one can use, and no one wants to pay for. Github copilot is an exception of course. I'm talking more about their Office 365 AI.

howmayiannoyyou•27m ago
Apple: $60b in cash.

The revenue from AI is growing at a much slower rate than recurring capex and depreciation is accumulating. This will create distress opportunities that cash-rich companies like APPL may seize. Might be a private equity deal, might be in the public markets as some of the players dip hard after IPO.

As this plays out, APPL's silicon has unified memory, power consumption and native acceleration that gives it an edge running SLMs and possibly LLMs at scale. Wouldn't shock me to see APPL introduce a data-center solution.

torginus•3m ago
This is a weird claim considering Apple has the best price/perf consumer grade hardware for AI

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