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String theory inspires a brilliant, baffling new math proof

https://www.quantamagazine.org/string-theory-inspires-a-brilliant-baffling-new-math-proof-20251212/
86•ArmageddonIt•6h ago

Comments

Y_Y•3h ago
Hey do you want to hear about this cool new result in maths? Let's just speedrun a graduate course in all the prerequisites!

(I more or less do have the background to read these things, but it's super off-putting to start the article about a crazy new proof from a Fields medallist with an introduction to manifolds.)

moralestapia•3h ago
You can always just not read an article, particularly if it triggers you.

I think it's nice someone wrote about this, even if it's super technical and I cannot understand it completely.

I got it for free!

kridsdale1•1h ago
I can tell which of the two of you likely has a more enjoyable life.
echelon•56m ago
Taste, or whatever you want to call this, is orthogonal to enjoyment.

I think Steve Jobs very much enjoyed life, and you know what kind of an attitude he had about things.

We're all wired up differently.

Quekid5•3h ago
(EDIT: I'm sorry, this silly and dumb.)

"You want many folds!" We gottem!

Y_Y•2h ago
I'm a differential geometer and I approve this message
EA-3167•3h ago
That's arguably what String Theory is good for, producing interesting, entertaining, and possibly even useful math. What it seems to fail at is making realistically testable predictions about nature that can't be matched or exceeded by simpler competing theories.
jfengel•3h ago
No Theory of Everything is going to make realistically testable predictions. That's a problem of the domain, not the theory. The unification energy between the graviton and quantum field theory is on the order of 10^19 GeV, over a dozen orders of magnitude beyond anything we can generate.

We might get lucky that some ToE would generate low-energy predictions different from GR and QFT, but there's no reason to think that it must.

It's not like there's some great low-energy predictions that we're just ignoring. The difficulty of a beyond-Standard-Model theory is inherent to the domain of the question, and that's going to plague any alternative to String Theory just as much.

munchler•2h ago
I think that’s highly debatable. For example, dark matter particles with testable properties could be a prediction of a ToE. Or the ToE could resolve the quantum measurement problem (collapse of the wave function) in a testable way.
yablak•2h ago
What's the "quantum measurement problem"? And why is it a problem? I get the wave function collapses when you measure bit. But which part of this do you want to resolve in a testable way?
munchler•2h ago
It’s the question of how the wave function collapses during a measurement. What exactly constitutes a “measurement”? Does the collapse happen instantaneously? Is it a real physical phenomenon or a mathematical trick?
yablak•1h ago
I thought that what constitutes a measurement is well understood; it's just the entanglement between the experiment and the observer, and the process is called decoherence - and the collapse itself is a probabilistic process as a result.

AFAIK an EoT is not required to design experiments to determine if it's a real physical phenomenon vs. a mathematical trick; people are trying to think up those experiments now (at least for hidden variable models of QM).

munchler•51m ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem
rhdunn•2h ago
The testable predictions would be at the places where QM and GR meet. Some examples:

1. interactions at the event horizon of a black hole -- could the theory describe Hawking radiation?

2. large elements -- these are where special relativity influences the electrons [1]

It's also possible (and worth checking) that a unified theory would provide explanations for phenomena and observed data we are ascribing to Dark Matter and Dark Energy.

I wonder if there are other phenomena such as effects on electronics (i.e. QM electrons) in GR environments (such as geostationary satellites). Or possibly things like testing the double slit experiment in those conditions.

[1] https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/646114/why-do-re...

Jabbles•2h ago
re 2: special relativity is not general relativity - large elements will not provide testable predictions for a theory of everything that combines general relativity and quantum mechanics.

re: "GR environments (such as geostationary satellites)" - a geostationary orbit (or any orbit) is not an environment to test the interaction of GR and QM - it is a place to test GR on its own, as geostationary satellites have done. In order to test a theory of everything, the gravity needs to be strong enough to not be negligible in comparison to quantum effects, i.e. black holes, neutron stars etc. your example (1) is therefore a much better answer than (2)

cevn•43m ago
Can't black holes explain Dark Energy? Supposedly there was an experiment showing Black Holes are growing faster than expected. If this is because they are tied to the expansion of the universe (univ. expands -> mass grows), and that tie goes both ways (mass grows -> universe expands), boom, dark energy. I also think that inside the black holes they have their own universes which are expanding (and that we're probably inside one too). If this expansion exerts a pressure on the event horizon which transfers out, it still lines up.
jcranmer•55m ago
I'm far from an expert in this field--indeed, I can but barely grasp the gentle introductions to these topics--but my understanding is that calling string theory a "theory of everything" really flatters it. String theory isn't a theory; it's a framework for building theories. And no one (to my understanding) has been able to put forward a theory using string theory that can actually incorporate the Standard Model and General Relativity running in our universe to make any prediction in the first place, much less one that is testable.
griffzhowl•23m ago
There's a more basic problem with string theory, which is that it's not a theory. It's a mathematical framework which is compatible with a very wide range of specific physical theories.

About tests of quantum gravity, there have been proposals for feasible tests using gravitationally-induced entanglement protocols:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1707.06036

xqcgrek2•3h ago
A few hundred people working on String Theory for about four decades is about $500 million. Hope this proof was worth it.
cyber_kinetist•3h ago
Over a couple of decades VCs have invested in vanity startups that cost billions of dollars like it's nothing, countless times.

I think half a billion isn't that expensive for a program that searches for a potential "theory of everything" that can profoundly change our understanding of the universe (even if it brings no results!)

lazide•2h ago
Then just call it maths, not physics?
exe34•1h ago
you can still call it whatever you like!
lazide•1h ago
Last time I called it ‘a haven for folks afraid to have testable theories’ I almost got banned!
exe34•1h ago
I'd like to express my doubts about your ability to understand their theories more colourfully, but I'm afraid I'm also under close scrutiny around here.
lazide•52m ago
This exact long running issue with string theory is surely my imagination, and I’m the only one who has commented on it. luckily it’s easy to prove me wrong.

Right?

runarberg•3h ago
I am not a fan of String Theory, but as far as fringe science theories go, String Theory is probably one of the more innocent ones. If you are going to pour money into a fringe science theory, I would much rather it goes to scientists trying to discover some properties of the universe which may or may not exist (and probably doesn’t exist; lets be honest here), than many of the awful stuff which exists on the fringes of social sciences (things like longtermism or futurism) or on the fringes of engineering (a future Mars colony, AI singularity, etc.).
setopt•2h ago
Genuinely curious: Why do you consider a future Mars colony to be «awful stuff»?
runarberg•2h ago
Yes, I do. It is engineeringly possible, but societally a horror prescription. I maintain that even the moon landing was an engineering dead end, it resulted in no major breakthrough which we wouldn’t have reached otherwise (for much cheaper) and the humanity benefited nothing but bragging rights. It was then used to further nationalism and exceptionalism by one particular society which went on to conduct many horrible acts of atrocities in the decades that followed.

The prospect of a Mars colony would be that except a million times worse. Humanity will never migrate to Mars, we will never live on Mars, we have nothing to gain by living there, and it may even be impossible for us to live a normal human life over there (e.g. we don‘t know if we can even give birth over there). The only thing it will give us are bragging rights to the powerful individuals which achives it first, who will likely use that as political capital to enact horrible policies on Earth, for their own personal benefits, at the cost of everybody else.

koakuma-chan•2h ago
Why colonize Mars? Why not Moon?
whiplash451•2h ago
The moon has no atmosphere. It is regularly hit by meteorites. Not sure it’s a very safe place to set up a colony.

Not like Mars is an amazing trip either, but the Moon is simply unsafe long term.

dmix•1h ago
Plus Mars has a far more interesting history so the people living there can do more fun science than stare out at dusty grey rock.
mwigdahl•1h ago
Mars has larger deposits of water and volatiles, which help with early space expansion.

You can start with a single Moon base but generally it isn't worth the mission control investment once you start to build out Mars.

Supermancho•2h ago
Saying "working toward a martian colony" is akin to saying "working toward a way to colonize the solar system". Mars is not very interesting once you have a methodology. The Moon is a much more practical place to start the process. Then aim at the asteroid belt.
runarberg•2h ago
Mining asteroids is a goal that makes sense. I can picture a future where spacecrafts are regularly sent to the asteroid belt and come back to earth with some minerals. Living on the moon does not make sense. There is nothing to be gained from humans living in a future moon base. Not any more than cities built in Antarctica, or in orbit with a constellation of ISS like satellites.

We won’t build a city on the Moon, nor Mars, nor any of Jupiter’s moons, nor anywhere outside of Earth, and we won‘t do this even if engineeringly possible, for the exact same reason we won’t build a bubble city inside the Mariana Trench.

TheOtherHobbes•1h ago
Mining asteroids makes no sense whatsoever with any currently imaginable practical tech, especially not economically. The numbers for even the most basic solutions just don't work, and anything cleverer - like adding thrusters to chunks of metal and firing them at the Earth - has one or two rather obvious issues.

The Moon is interesting because it's there, it's fairly close, it's a test bed for off-world construction, manufacturing, and life support, and there are experiments you can do on the dark side that aren't possible elsewhere.

Especially big telescopes.

It has many of the same life support issues as Mars, and any Moon solutions are likely to work on Mars and the asteroids, more quickly and successfully than trying to do the same R&D far, far away.

Will it pay for itself? Not for a long, long time. But frontier projects rarely do.

The benefit comes from the investment, the R&D, the new science and engineering, and the jobs created.

It's also handy if you need a remote off-site backup.

Supermancho•1h ago
> Mining asteroids makes no sense whatsoever with any currently imaginable practical tech, especially not economically.

With current tech, it's practical enough to extract rocks from a rock. We've already done this on a comet, which I think is much harder to do. With current economics, not practical to fund such an endeavor, even if it was to haul back an asteroid made of solid gold. Regardless, we're discussing the far future, rather than current state.

If raw materials (again, an unknown) continue to become more scarce, it's hard to say what economics might support extra-planetary resource collection. What's for sure, is mining Mars will be harder than mining asteroids for water or metals, et al.

runarberg•42m ago
Mining asteroids makes no sense in the current economy with our current technology. But working towards engineering solutions which makes mining asteroids make sense makes sense (if that makes sense).

However, it is much easier to see us send robots to mine these asteroids, or send robots to the moon to build a giant telescope on the dark side (if that makes sense), then it is to see us build cities on the moon to build said telescope, and to mine those asteroids.

You see the difference here is that the end goal of mining asteroids are resources being sent to earth and exploited, while the goal of space settlements are the settlements them selves, that is some hypothetical space expansion is the goal, and that makes no sense, nobodies lives will improve from space expansion (except for the grifters’ during the grift).

orochimaaru•3h ago
What would you have them work on? Predatory social media platforms that sell your data to advertisers and commoditize you.
jjk166•2h ago
Or roughly the cost of producing Star Wars IX: The Rise of Skywalker. Kinda wish that money had gone to string theory.
analog31•2h ago
I suspect more people worked on solving quadratic equations in what I estimate to be the 1000 years since the problem was formulated, to when it was solved. The ancient Greeks knew that they could solve some quadratic equations but not others, and Al-Khwarizmi came up with the general solution. And then it was even further generalized with complex numbers.
dimator•2h ago
so like 12.5 million a year? what an incredible self-own.

aside from that, this number is meaningless without context: how much do other fields of research get?

gmueckl•45m ago
Don't tell him how much money was invested into CERN over the same timespan to conduct experiments with highly uncertain outcomes. Or into gravitational wave detection. It wasn't certain that those waves even exist until the first measurement decades into the program.
yunwal•46m ago
If all research bore fruit it wouldn't be research.
DoctorOetker•46m ago
It's 2025, if you want to publish grand claims, and you're initially the only one who understands your own proof, publish a machine readable proof in say MetaMath's .mm format.

GNU Unifont

https://unifoundry.com/unifont/index.html
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String theory inspires a brilliant, baffling new math proof

https://www.quantamagazine.org/string-theory-inspires-a-brilliant-baffling-new-math-proof-20251212/
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