I love being able to see an example and type it my editor in without having to switch back and forth a bunch of times because I forgot some syntax by the time I switched windows. Your data is a ball of dough and you can knead it into whatever shape you want with the primitives.
Even if I don't know what the symbols are, its still easier to remember because its less stuff you have to type in. Its a little bit of work up front to learn some of the verbs (why not use Anki and some mnemonics), but you really do have so much more room to think about the problem in your head. The compression is like a cool breeze on a hot summer day.
The tacit syntax is too idiosyncratic (I always forget the different types of verb trains) and I'm not entirely convinced it actually helped me as a "tool of thought" (but it might just be me not sticking with it long enough to be able to decode The Matrix).
I wish multidimensional arrays were a first-class citizen in my main languages though.
jandrese•3h ago
That is an alarming statement, especially as the first line on the site.
> Words are expressed in the standard ASCII alphabet. Primitive words are spelled with one or two letters; two letter words end with a period or a colon. The entire spelling scheme is shown in the system summary. The verb ;: facilitates exploration of the rhematic rules. Thus:
> The source code for word formation is in the files w*.c. The process is controlled by the function wordil (word index and length) and the table state. Rows of state correspond to 10 states; columns to 9 character classes. Each table entry is a (new state, function) pair. Starting at state S, a sentence is scanned from left to right one character at a time; the table entry corresponding to the current state and character class is applied.I'm already lost, and this is the first example.
jonahx•3h ago
And anyone reading this at the time would have been familiar with APL as well.
It's not intended to be beginner friendly. Like J, and like the original J dictionary, the values here are brevity, compactness, and essence. There is plenty of other more beginner friendly material on J out there.
great_wubwub•2h ago
> This document describes an implementation of J in C. The reader is assumed to be familiar with J and C.
jandrese•2h ago
jonahx•2h ago
There have a been at least a couple attempts I've seen posted here of blog posts breaking down the code in a beginner friendly way. One I dug up is: https://blog.wilsonb.com/posts/2025-06-06-readable-code-is-u...
Related: https://needleful.net/blog/2024/01/arthur_whitney.html
nerdponx•1h ago
I get it and I've heard it before, it's supposed to make it easier to fit more on one screen which is supposed to reduce cognitive burden. You are free to like what you like of course, but it just makes everything look like a jumble.
And even in a math context, I get frustrated if there's no simple glossary or surrounding prose to describe what's going on. Very few people write math this way, as a dense jumble of symbols. Even in the context of written mathematics, this is a very unusual style. I feel like J fans talk about it as if it's a totally normal thing to do if only you knew a little more math.
ofalkaed•2h ago
mlochbaum•2h ago
"Ken Iverson - The dictionary of J contains an introductory comment that J is a dialect of APL, so in a sense the whole debate is Ken's fault! He is flattered to think that he has actually created a new language."