I use it also for a server of mine (and generally any new project I have).
I have also a few open-source projects in Swift[1][2], but none known.
[1] https://github.com/xcode-actions
[2] https://github.com/Frizlab?tab=repositories&q=&type=&languag...
I have learned to like the language. It's not perfect, but comes closer than most. I've written in a lot of languages, over the years.
My other language is PHP, which I use for my backend work. I've probably been writing that for over twenty years, but I still don't like the language.
As I was learning Swift, I started this series of posts[0]. It's still ongoing, but I haven't added anything in a while, and the language has progressed, since the earlier posts.
It’s no big deal. I don’t really do much backend work, so PHP is fine for that.
kris-s•1mo ago
This is being too generous to Swift's poorly designed String API. The author gets into it immediately after the quote with an Array<Character> workaround, regex issues, and later Substring pain. It's not a fatal flaw, a language backed by one of the richest companies in the world can have few fatal flaws, but AoC in particular shines a light on it.
I really like Swift as an application/games language but I think it unlikely it can ever escape that domain.
frizlab•1mo ago
I wholeheartedly disagree and counterpoint that all other String APIs are wrong (bold statement, I know). Accessing a random index of a String is a complex (slow) operation, and as such, should be reflected as complex in the code, especially since people usually think it is not complex.
If you want an array of UInt8, just use that.
The part about the regex I agree with. They are slow and that’s a shame. I do not personally use regex much though, and don’t think it should be done much in prod either, unless there are no other options, but that does not excuse a poor implementation.
Regarding the domain, I recognize it seems to have difficulties escaping the “native iOS/macOS apps,” but IMHO it should not. It is a language that is simple to use, with a reasonable memory handling default (ARC), though it can also use the memory ownership model of rust. Generally speaking using Swift is possible everywhere. I use it personally for an app (native and web front, and back), and it is extremely cool.
Its ecosystem is also becoming quite interesting. Most of the libs are from Apple, yes, but they are also very qualitative.
All in all I think it’s shame Swift is not more used overall in the industry.
happytoexplain•1mo ago
Nope nope nope.
I have to agree strongly with my sibling commenter. Every other language gets it horribly wrong.
In app dev (Swift's primary use case), strings are most often semantically sequences of graphemes. And, if you at all care about computer science, array subscripting must be O(1).
Swift does the right thing for both requirements. Beautiful.
OK, yes, maybe they should add a native `nthCharacter(n:)`, but that's nitpicking. It's a one-liner to add yourself.
tialaramex•1mo ago
In Rust "AbcdeF"[1] isn't a thing, it won't compile, but "AbcdeF"[1..=1] says we want the UTF-8 substring starting from byte 1 through to byte 1 and that compiles, and it'll work because that string does have a valid UTF-8 substring there, it's "b" -- However it'll panic if we try to "€300"[1..=1] because that's no longer a valid UTF-8 substring, that's nonsense.
For app dev this is too low level, but it's nice to have a string abstraction that's at home on a small embedded device where it doesn't matter that I can interpret flags, or an emoji with appropriate skin tones, or whatever else as a distinct single grapheme in Unicode, but we would like to do a bit better than "Only ASCII works in this device" in 2025.
zzo38computer•1mo ago
tialaramex•1mo ago
In 2005 it's rather old-fashioned. There's lots of 8859-1 and cp1252 out there but people aren't making so much of it, and Unicode aka 10646 is clearly the future.
In 2015 it's a done deal.
Here we are in 2025. Stop treating non-Unicode text as anything other than an aberration.
You don't need checks "for every string operation". You need a properly designed string type.
Someone•1mo ago
> In Rust "AbcdeF"[1] isn't a thing, it won't compile, but "AbcdeF"[1..=1] says we want the UTF-8 substring starting from byte 1 through to byte 1 and that compiles, and it'll work because that string does have a valid UTF-8 substring there, it's "b" -- However it'll panic if we try to "€300"[1..=1]
I disagree. IMO, an API that uses byte offsets to substring on Unicode code points (or even larger units?) already is a bad idea, but then, having it panic when the byte offsets do not happen to be code point/(extended) grapheme cluster boundaries?
How are you supposed to use that when, as you say ”we would like to do a bit better than "Only ASCII works in this device" in 2025”?
I see there’s a better API that doesn’t throw (https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/primitive.str.html#method.get), but that IMO, still isn’t as nice as Swift’s choice because it still uses byte offsets
tialaramex•1mo ago
It's often the case that we know where a substring we want starts and ends, so this operation makes sense - because we know there's a valid substring this won't panic. For example if we know there's a literal colon at bytes 17 and 39 in our string foo, foo[18..39] is the UTF-8 text from bytes 18 to 38 inclusive, representing the string between those colons.
One source of confusion here, is not realising that UTF-8 is a self-synchronising encoding. There are a lot of tricks that are correct and fast with UTF-8 but would be a disaster in the other multi-byte encodings or if (which is never the case in Rust) this isn't actually a UTF-8 string.
ks2048•1mo ago
ezfe•1mo ago
If you know it's safe to do you can get a representation as a list of UInt8 and then index into that.
zzo38computer•1mo ago
ks2048•1mo ago
zzo38computer•1mo ago
novok•1mo ago
We don't care that it takes longer, we all know that, we still need to do a bunch of string operations anyway, and it's way worse with swift than to do an equivalent thing than it is than pretty much any other language.
happytoexplain•1mo ago
Like I said, you can easily extend String to look up graphemes by integer index, but you should define it as a function, not a subscript, to honor the convention of using subscripts only for constant-time access.
It's also just not a normal use case. In ten years of exclusive Swift usage, I've never had to get a string's nth grapheme, except for toy problems like Advent of Code.
amomchilov•1mo ago
The AoC format goes out of its way to express all problem inputs and outputs in simple strings with only basic ASCII text, just for compatibility with the most programming environments. This is very different from almost all real-world problem, where the complexities of human language are huge.