Given that there are usually _zero_ people rallying in Lansing, this is notable enough for the local newspaper.
"99.9% of residents did not show up to protest new datacenters in Michigan"
The threshold is an organization organizing it. Getting 100 people out demonstrates your political power to your supporters and the people you seek to influence. Getting 1,000 people demonstrates that you have more of it.
> They listened to Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel criticizing the lack of transparency with DTE, the utility that's associated with the Saline Township proposal, and legislators who protested tax breaks for data center projects.
> ...
> "We're talking about 1.4 gigawatts, which is, of course, enough to provide energy to a city of a million people," Nessel said. "I think we should be taking this extremely seriously, don't you? Do you guys trust DTE? Do you trust Open AI? Do we trust Oracle to look out for our best interests here in Michigan?"
this wasn't just a random group of 100 people, they were organized enough to get the state AG as well as multiple state legislators to speak. seems fairly newsworthy to me.
not so much for a 300 acre noisy, water hogging data center.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/11/tsunami-...
"Global computing power demand from internet-connected devices, high resolution video streaming, emails, surveillance cameras and a new generation of smart TVs is increasing 20% a year, consuming roughly 3-5% of the world’s electricity in 2015, says Swedish researcher Anders Andrae."
It's not crazy to think it might increase to 20%. How much is it really in 2025?
I haven't seen that. Interestingly it's less than 2015, per the article.
rmason•6h ago
In Michigan cities there is plenty of vacant land. Thousands of acres of vacant land. Here in Lansing the old GM owns two large plots where factories stood stamping out Oldsmobile's. There is all the power you would ever need. They're surrounded by other factories making possibly more noise than even a data centers fans. A small business community that has been decimated by the GM employees business in the neighborhood leaving.
So where do they ask to put a small data center? Right in the city's entertainment district! Makes less sense than putting it on farmland. Look Michigan needs the jobs, just a little common sense would go a long ways.
itake•3h ago
The noise problem is caused by fans (air cooling). Data centers cooled by water do not have noisy fans. My understand is modern data center designs use close loop water systems, eliminating noise and water table issues.
xnx•3h ago
rmason•3h ago
But as several data center engineers I have spoken to agreed with me that if it was put on one of the many empty parking lots West of the Capitol it would be surrounded by mostly empty government buildings where a majority of state workers are working from home. They would still be able to access the steam district.
zamadatix•3h ago
Honestly, if there is a place it would have made sense to do evaporative cooling it was probably Michigan anyways... but I hope the closed loop option ends up working out just as well.
cogman10•1h ago
Evaporative cooling works best in low humidity areas. That's why it's so often deployed in deserts.
Narkov•2h ago
vondur•2h ago
colechristensen•2h ago
Now Iowa probably has more water than almost anywhere, but still. Protesting the usage is valid.
inferiorhuman•2h ago
jeffbee•1h ago
So, basically none?
al_borland•1h ago
colechristensen•59m ago
They're taking advantage of inappropriately priced industrial water.
Regardless of if it makes sense, that's what they're doing. Using a lot of cold groundwater and then dumping it.
It would be much more expensive to have a closed loop of cooling water (and you're not going to get a lot of cooling on a humid 90 degree Iowa summer day)
al_borland•52m ago
AngryData•59m ago
Also Michigan isn't perpetually wet, the summers can get dry at times which means natural sources slow down and ground water recedes and data centers can't/won't scale down utilization based on seasonal conditions. If they end up relying on pulling from ground water, they might not see any limits or problems on their time scales, but 20 years down the road when the local's natural springs and artesian wells stop performing they might get pissed.
All that said, Michigan is pretty good at trying to protect its water, and I expect there to be a decent amount of pushback and opposition to any irresponsible planning with regards to water usage. But on the other hand, we do have a number of corrupt politicians which a big tech company could easily line the pockets of.
cebert•2h ago
SoftTalker•2h ago
colechristensen•2h ago
thinkmassive•1h ago
runako•1h ago
al_borland•1h ago
futuraperdita•1h ago
kijin•1h ago
I don't know what realistic alternative the residents have in mind, but I'd say even a few jobs is better than the urban decay that's been destroying Michigan.
yellow_lead•2h ago
eru•2h ago
danans•1h ago
There will be few jobs created after construction is complete, and the ones created won't pay anything like typical tech comp.
esseph•1h ago
Median US Salary for a Data Center Technician is around 80k.
Median US Salary is $63,360.
Median household income is around $75,763 (Detroit CSA #s).
There's a lot of people out of work right now.
runako•1h ago
al_borland•1h ago
daheza•1h ago
vjvjvjvjghv•1h ago
danans•56m ago
PunchyHamster•1h ago
ekropotin•1h ago
VTimofeenko•1h ago
WalterBright•1h ago
jazzyjackson•1h ago
al_borland•1h ago
I also toured one of our larger data centers, and even inside the small cube farm area it felt like a normal office. The noise only picked up once inside the room with the servers.
Noise during construction would probably be worse than noise during operation.
100pctremote•1h ago