I've been saying it for ages, but a decent easily available western equivalent to the ESP32 (meaning easy WiFi) needs to happen, and until it does there will be a giant hole in the middle of the entire maker universe, which increasingly acts as the prototyping stage for commercialized gadgetry.
An ESP32 can, for the most part, be fully audited in what it is sending. Yes, the wireless drivers are binary blobs, but the developer has extensive control over the device, and it is easy to monitor/filter/firewall the data sent.
3D printers, as a general category, are also more similar to the ESP32 than to DJI.
At first I found it hard to believe that this is data they wouldn't get more reliably, more extensively from a satellite. But then I imagine, if you were a bad actor, you wouldn't want all the video, all the exact terrain data, etc, but maybe only that near certain points of interest like energy infrastructure, transportation, etc. So this, paired with satellite data is super powerful.
Then again, for most of the US, Google street view exists so there's that, a lot of the data is already out there.
I feel like blocking DJI is just politics of “we have have to do something, anything” and “hey look, we did things” even though those things are irrelevant.
This is not about recreating google maps data. The US banning DJI drones is really a necessity at this point. It's not a complete solution to the problems at hand, but there is no point in supporting China in this way.
- Texas Instruments SimpleLink CC32xx (CC3220 / CC3235)
- TI CC3235MODA module
- Renesas DA16200
- Microchip PIC32MZ-W1
- Microchip WFI32 module family
- Silicon Labs SiWx917 / SiWG917
- Silicon Labs SiWx917Y module
- Nordic Semiconductor nRF7001/7002 WiFi 6 IC
- Use with nRF52, nRF53 or nRF91 series SoCs
- STMicroelectronics STM32 with ST67W series pre-certified WiFi modules
If necessary one can use any cheap hobby solution for initial development and then port to an industrial-class SoC solution. We've done this a few times during pandemic era shortages; using the RP2040 to get through prototyping and development and then switching the design to an industrial-grade chip.
The TI parts seem a bit expensive in small quantities, but the Microchip and SiliLabs parts are like $6-7 in single units from Digi-Key. Is it just that the dev kits are in the >$50 price range which puts people off compared to ESP32?
It helps to separate hobbyist use from professional product development.
The hobby market is driven by quick, cheap, and easy: low up-front cost, abundant tutorials, and inexpensive dev boards. In that context, ESP32 shines, and expensive dev kits can be a real psychological barrier.
For commercial, industrial, or professional products, however, small-quantity pricing is often irrelevant. Sample or single-unit prices rarely reflect real production costs. Without getting into specifics, it’s common for the ratio between sample pricing and volume pricing to be 10× or more.
A part that costs $20 in onesies can easily be a $2 part at scale. This doesn’t apply universally, but it does mean that judging a device’s suitability for mass production based on Digi-Key single-unit pricing is usually a mistake.
There are also system-level considerations beyond the MCU’s line item price. For example, the RP2040 could be very inexpensive (around $0.50 in modest volumes when we used it), but that ignores the required external flash, which adds cost, board space, and supply-chain complexity. More importantly for many products, it offers no meaningful code security (the external flash can simply be read out—which can be a non-starter in commercial designs).
Guaranteed long-term availability can be crucially important as well; with design support requirements in commercial/industrial settings often extending past ten year timelines.
Tooling and ecosystem maturity also matter. At the time, the RP2040 toolchain was notably hostile to Windows, and Raspberry Pi support reflected that attitude. In reality, most product development (EE, MCAD, manufacturing, test, PLM/ERP) is Windows-centric. Asking an organization to bolt a Linux-only toolchain onto an otherwise Windows-based workflow just to save a dollar on an MCU is rarely a winning argument.
So while cost absolutely matters, it’s often not the dominant factor in professional design. Security, tooling, vendor support, long-term availability, and integration into existing workflows frequently outweigh a few dollars of MCU price, particularly once production pricing enters the picture.
I didn’t directly answer that question before.
Strictly speaking, nothing essential is missing from many of these other parts. In fact, in professional contexts they often have better documentation, support, longevity guarantees, or security features than ESP32.
One of the biggest differentiators is simply pricing strategy. Espressif has used aggressively low pricing (what many would reasonably call predatory pricing) to capture mindshare and market share. That playbook is hardly new; it’s been used successfully across industries for decades. Ultra-cheap silicon, combined with inexpensive dev boards, dramatically lowers the barrier to entry and makes ESP32 the default choice, especially for hobbyists and startups.
Price pressure also creates a feedback loop: more users means more tutorials, libraries, examples, and community support, which in turn makes the platform feel easier and safer to choose, even when alternatives might be technically superior.
For teams operating in cost-driven markets, this can become unavoidable. If your product lives or dies on BOM cost, reaching for the cheapest viable part may not be optional. I spent several years in that environment myself, and while it’s a valid constraint, it tends to push decisions toward short-term cost optimization rather than long-term engineering value.
So the answer isn’t that these parts lack features, it’s that ESP32 combines good-enough capabilities with exceptionally aggressive pricing and a massive ecosystem, which together make it the default choice in many contexts.
Translation: they're expensive, and getting them working involves jumping through hoops more complex than simply getting boards off Amazon and launching VS Code. They aren't equivalent, and the sneering isn't helping.
It is failing to understand this that opens the door to DJI and Bambu, who unsurprisingly prioritize user experience and predictability, which is a major factor in why in open competition they keep wiping the floor with everyone.
Who's sneering?
Complexity is a relative assessment. Bringing up 8, 16 and 32 bit MCUs/SoC's has never in history been easier. Decades ago we used to have to bring up our boards from nothing, sometimes even having to write our own RTOS, boot code, firmware update code, etc. Today? A high school kid could do it with most chips. Go check out the STM32 Cube ecosystem for a glimpse.
I do understand that this is still likely daunting for hobbyists. I am not talking about arduino-level hobby users. That is not my world at all. However, understand that the commercial/industrial market is orders of magnitude larger than the hobby markets, and the rules and requirements are different.
> It is failing to understand this that opens the door to DJI and Bambu, who unsurprisingly prioritize user experience and predictability, which is a major factor in why in open competition they keep wiping the floor with everyone.
Are you responding to someone else's comment? This has nothing to do with what I was addressing. I am talking about chips, and, in particular, SoC (System on Chip) solutions for WiFi applications. These are components used by engineers to design products. You are talking about finished products. You might as well add blender and microwave oven manufacturers to that list.
In this universe the old way of doing things makes no sense.
> Who's sneering?
Your comment was, and you still are like:
> However, understand that the commercial/industrial market is orders of magnitude larger than the hobby markets, and the rules and requirements are different.
In fact the hobby market now has _tougher_ requirements (particularly for software support, which Wifi necessitates) than the commercial and industrial one, and would not tolerate the level of random hacks/erratum that are spat out by the major chip providers.
This is classic bottom up disruption.
Yeah, no. Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about.
I've gone from self-funded garage startup to millions of dollars in annual sales twice in my life (> $40MM annual with my current business, targeting 10x that within five years). And, yes, I've also had several truly memorable failures (including going bankrupt).
What you are saying might only align with reality at a trivial business level. Even today. Making ten or a hundred gizmos for Etsy with no concern given to the requirements of real comercial/industrial products? Sure. Anything else, no, you are wrong.
> In fact the hobby market now has _tougher_ requirements (particularly for software support, which Wifi necessitates) than the commercial and industrial one, and would not tolerate the level of random hacks/erratum that are spat out by the major chip providers.
Once again, sorry, you might want to stop, this statement shows just how little you know. There's nothing in hobby-world that even remotely compares to the requirements of commercial and industrial products.
Simple example: Nobody producing hobby products worries about setting someone's house on fire or making a device that interferes with pacemakers.
Please go ask ChatGPT what it costs to obtain UL, FCC, TUV, CE and other certifications for a non-trivial electronic or electromechanical product. Depending on many factors, the number is going to be between $25K and well over $100K.
So, if you are doing it legally and with all safety and other certifications, your cost basis starts at around $25K JUST FOR THE CERTIFICATIONS. If you manufacture 100 units, that would be $250 per unit in regulatory costs. So, how do you sell a hobby gizmo for $10 or $25? Simple, you ignore all of that and just sell it. And if it burns down someone's home, interferes with pacemakers or had other negative repercussions you ignore it, go out of business or whatever.
The millions of Chinese products on Amazon in this category are "fire and forget" products. The manufacturers could not care less what happens or what harm they may cause. There are plenty of stories of cheap USB charge adapters that have caused fires, etc. Certifications obtained in China for these products are mostly fake and cannot be relied upon at all (I have seen some truly horrific things).
BTW, there's nothing wrong with not knowing. We don't know everything, nobody does. What is ill-advised is to behave as though we did know.
One way to look at it is that the hobby market is the domain of a range of people spanning a range from kids to adult tinkerers and enthusiasts. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I was a kid designing and building computers (from bare IC's) before I went to university. The commercial, industrial, medical and aerospace markets are the domain of professionals. There's a vast knowledge, capability, responsibility and requirements gap between those two worlds. One does not negate the other and it isn't sneering to say that hobby products rarely measure up to products designed for other markets.
"OK". This is why your snark is so easily detectable, you're the one that doesn't see how things have moved on.
> Once again, sorry, you might want to stop, this statement shows just how little you know. There's nothing in hobby-world that even remotely compares to the requirements of commercial and industrial products.
> Simple example: Nobody producing hobby products worries about setting someone's house on fire or making a device that interferes with pacemakers.
Yeah, they do. What do you think the 3D printer community worries about? It's a rapidly moving heating element shooting hot plastic, an inherent health and fire hazard if it goes wrong. If the likes of Bambu got this wrong you would absolutely know about it.
If drone control software crashes what happens? It falls out of the sky on to people.
And here you are coping that 3D printers or drones are easy products to develop in consumer friendly form.
I've worked on tablets and cellphones prototypes (things shipping in tens of millions per model variant) we had burn people in testing because of bugs caused by the usual supposedly reputable manufacturers. You can tell by some of the devices that actually shipped that big corp enthusiasm for risk taking can easily exceed what smaller scale producers will accept, and that to the right people it presents no obstacle to certification.
The Chinese have overtaken the west at actually being good at consumer electronics development, and the denial about this from people is frightening.
If I argue with my wife about medical matters (she is an MD) her response might look or sound snarky to some. In reality, she would be correct in telling me how and why I would be wrong.
You really need to stop, because you are digging a deeper hole with every word. You just said that 3D printers and drone are easy consumer products to develop. You truly do not understand what it takes to develop these products. The vast majority of them are still incredibly unsafe. There's a minority that have greatly enhanced safety. It should not be surprising that the safe systems (with a couple of exceptions) cost tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars and address commercial/industrial markets, not hobby. The amount of engineering and testing these systems require is nothing less than massive.
Context: I've been designing, building and flying all kinds of RC planes, gliders, helicopters and multicopters for four decades. I have been designing, building and using 3D printers for over two decades. Our latest 3D printer for internal use is equipped with Teknic Clearpath motors with fully machined structure and parts made on our Haas CNC Vertical Machining Centers.
Again, please, chill, nobody is insulting the hobby world (which you seem to be offended by). These are different worlds. That's how it has been from the start of time. And that's OK.
Here, I'll help you stop. Let's agree to disagree. You are absolutely right and I am wrong.
Live long and prosper.
Basically you can't actually read then and are just imagining things to argue with while slinging insults.
I said the exact opposite of what you are claiming - you're the one dismissing the entire hobbyist field, while attempting to deflect otherwise.
Un-fucking-believable.
Good for you. Fuck it. You win. Happy?
They exist, they just don't ship to individual nobodies without NDAs and months of talks and supply commitments, therefore we might as well consider them nonexistent. And that's sinking the whole world into oblivion, and no one(sane) is doing anything about it.
Chinese equivalents of Western products ship same day to mail drops at two digits below USD denominated global market manufacturing costs. That's their secret sauce. Or tried and true East Asian miracles strategy, of exploiting material independence to vacuum in foreign currency that are short of cost but are just trustless bundles of paper anyway. Economic competition is not possible when that's possible for them and nobody else - NOBODY else, not like "only for Asian backwater whatever failed state", but China, for now, specifically.
I'm actually from Japan and, with goggles of a maker on, DJI behavior feels reminiscent of Sony until it sank. The tech is top notch, and prices make progressively less sense towards higher ends. That kills competitions by denying sales of high end products(IMO. I'm not a sane person).
As every foreign-made drone is now on the FCC’s “Covered List.
They could get us to ban DJI for sure but I'd assume it'd be more through carrot than stick, because at this point we've been pretty consistently beaten for the last year.
Canada being the only country to successfully invade the US
or did I mix up my pronoun references again?
Incorrect. General tariffs are only on goods not already covered by CUSMA, which, other than the specific items already called out (aluminum, steel, etc.), is a very small set.
"All you need to do to defeat the US is completely destroy its entire industrial base"
Even going off your theory that the US drone industry is not easily sabotaged, it can't possibly be easier to sabotage the US drone industry plus all the import pathways (which you would otherwise have to re-establish). That is why you chose this dismissive fake-quote rather than address what I've said.
Of course I am rather dismissive of the claim that this is a small feat. I accuse you of not fully thinking through what exactly it would take to fubar domestic drone production.
It's an interesting strategy to sidestep the conversation; rather than acknowledging the superiority of having redundant international supply chain you can just suggest it doesn't really matter anyway if US drone capacity is gone because at that point the war is lost.
I don't see the evidence for why this must be true, whether you think it is a 'small feat' or not.
No, I claimed that to fubar the domestic supply chain was a victory condition of the war. Sabotage can be repaired or bypassed, halts can be unhalted. But to fuck up beyond all reason the US domestic industrial capacity, i.e. to render it so that it can not assemble basic electronics of the sort that are used in drones at all with no ability to get production back online within a strategically meaningful period of time, yes that means the war is over. At that point drones are the least of our concerns. Everything you are fighting for has already been destroyed, the death toll is already catastrophic, the enemy is clearly superior by a massive factor, continued fighting at that point would be suicide.
Now I am not arguing that a redundant international supply chain is a bad thing, I am opposed to banning all foreign drone firms. But that being said, the claim that it is obviously superior is the extraordinary claim requiring evidence. As we clearly saw in 2020, international supply chains are incredibly vulnerable to disruption. Can you be confident that a foreign nation supplying us drones would be on our side in the event of a major conflict? Would all of their suppliers be on our side? Even if they are all on our side, would they be able to ship materials and products between themselves and to us unimpeded? Would they still be able and willing to do so when we are being beat so bad that our domestic industry has collapsed? A strong international supply chain is a good supplement to domestic production capacity, but the claim it is a superior alternative can not be taken as a given.
To knock out out the domestic drone supply chain, such that it can not quickly be brought back online, you need to create a situation such that none of these manufacturers are able to make drones. Of course if there is no one who can make a drone, there's no one who can make a missile guidance system, there's no one who can make fighter jets, there's no one who can make radars, there's no one who can make radios, there's no one who can make spare parts for any of these systems and more out in the field. If you still had any of that capability, you would still be able to make drones. Losing the capability to make drones means you have been completely and utterly knocked out of the fight.
Again, I accuse you of not previously thinking through what the supply chain of drones is, and thus your argument is indeed quite silly.
I was hoping you'd say that, because it cleanly proves my case. Allowing importation of drones won't destroy the drone supply chain; in your own words that would require destroying the entirety of US industry, which importing drones cannot do even if Chinese drone imports or functionality is suddenly cut off.
You've thus crushed the premise and neatly rested the case in my favor. Because you can't possibly simultaneously argue destroying the entire US industry is required and also argue all it takes is flooding and then poisoning the market with import drones.
Some might call that poor pre-planning. If you're about to go to war with your biggest supplier, you'd be well advised to stock up on supplies before firing the first shot.
So are Molotov’s.
Not allowing _any_ foreign made components, however, is insane, as is not even auditing DJI when they didn't put up a fight. They have to know they're just killing the small drone industry completely.
There is no real downsides for the current gov’t here.
I’d pay more for domestic parts, because I think the capability is strategically valuable, and the quality of Chinese stuff is super variable.
There’s basically no industry here because the aliexpress parts are so cheap, so I support some protectionism, understanding that it will make the hobby more expensive.
I think you’re probably right, but I think going for million dollar drones from anduril while wiping the rest of the market is a miscalculation.
I can’t even think of another country that makes 4S Lipo batteries or the motors or the ESC’s or the VTX or the GPS module..
Chinese stuff ranges from cheap to expensive, super reliable and super unreliable, too.
Checks out. More legislation boosts your business.
The drone thing is a personal opinion. If the US ends up in a war (whether it’s one I agree with or not, likely not), I don’t want millions of drones to be remote controllable by the folks we’re fighting.
How will it even get out of my closet to create such havoc for 26 minutes before it drops out of the sky begging me for a new battery?
Let's put on our fun James Bond villain hats for a bit.
The US has around 1.75MM drones that people have bothered to register. DJI has around 75% of that, so call it 1.25MM. This registration program is relatively new so let's say 750K of those are still operable.
How many of those are in the air at any given time? Keep in mind many of these bigger registered drones are used by businesses.
Let's say it's 1%, so 7,500 drones suddenly open some backdoor and get commanded to do a nose dive for the nearest power line. Now add in the smaller ones that are less likely to do damage, but there are 10x as many. Now combine it with a simultaneous cyber attack on infrastructure, and some pre-planned terror attacks.
Is it going to end the country? Of course not. Is there potential for that to cause huge chaos? I think so.
Is that more absurd than the Hezbollah pager bombings? I don't think so.
So yeah, I'd pay more for my drones, my cars, my cell phone towers, etc etc to avoid them being controlled by a country that we might end up in a stupid war with. I'm not saying you can make everything locally in the modern world, that's absurd. But there are valid strategic and natsec concerns about the US/China trade relationship in 2025.
OMG, get serious. DJI can't blow up the drones. It is in my closet, not my pocket.
Again, this is just silly. Even for James Bond! ;p
It is more "We have to do something!!" that reminds me of cities in California having moratoriums on building new housing -- who would have thought that people would want to build in order to live in a nice climate. But really was about a new kind of neighbor...
At the same time, several businesses have and are trying to compete in this business. The amount of capital required is enormous if anyone is going to compete with DJI and the like. I personally know someone in this situation. They have a great product and some traction, but going from low quantity bespoke solutions to cost competitive large scale manufacturing costs hundreds of millions.
And the problem is, investors don't trust that the ban is going to last forever. The government could reverse the ban at any time, and that puts the US company back in a position where they can't compete with DJI, so the investors lose money. And they know that.
> DJI responded publicly that month that they had nothing to hide, and subsequently spent a year trying to convince the U.S. government to begin the audit. But no federal agency even began
There's your answer. There was never any concern over Americans data being sent to China.
Also they didn't "Follow through", they simply let the clock run out without even evaluating DJI's reponse to the claims.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/drone-company...
It’s plausible that the determination was made that there were backdoors/spy equipment/whatever in the products, so no audit or smooth talking from corp representatives would make a difference in this case, given the supply chain remains controlled by an adversary. If you don’t trust that an audit can be executed with integrity then there’s not much point in conducting one at all.
The fact that this has been extended to all foreign drones does make that feel like more of a political statement though, or at the very least the original intent is being hijacked for political theater.
0. https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/cybersecurity-advisories/aa...
> Huawei has a history of IP theft and security incidents related to backdoors and malware going back nearly 20 years.
> ZTE has been accused of including unusual backdoors in some products and was caught selling equipment containing U.S. technology to Iran and North Korea, in violation of trade agreements. … Security researchers, however, noted that the backdoors were “highly unusual” and appeared intentional because they were supporting software updates.
Source: https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/112475/documents/...
The problem is the software updates. Whoever controls those keys has an entire domestic fleet a single firmware update away. Probably won't even be DJI, but some either state or non-state hacker that happens to acquire the update keys.
It's too fast with no viable replacement path in sight.
Classic trump administration. Do something splashy, then when the media hype dies there is a giant void and no plan whatsoever
We're not talking about duct-taping a Go Pro to an OTS drone.
Plus, if we're talking military drones vs civilian drones, they wouldn't need plastic shells. That'd just be more weight reducing distance. Then again, military industrial complex would probably try to make them stealth capable, be designed by committee from 22 nation states, be micro-USB mandated to comply with EU standards, blah blah. Yeah, you're right, we'd never be able to build them here.
A skilled machinist (and the US has many) used to be able do it in any moderately-equipped machine shop.
Is there something new and magic about modern injection molding?
I just anecdotally see that in the USA, the required iterative design process is too cost-prohibitive for injection molding, and likely the same for every other trade. So multiply number of trades (designer, CAD drafter, machinist, electrical engineer, software engineer, injection molder, assembler, etc.) multiplied by the number of experimental iterative processes required to build an institutional knowledgebase... it's cost-prohibited.
So while not duct-taping a GoPro (we'd use Gaff tape anyways), they could use bailing wire with a grenade or c4 bundle to attach it.
DJI drones aren't being used as weapons platforms in the US...
They're being used for industry (agriculture, real estate, land surveillance, fire monitoring)
No one gives a shit that it's not difficult to make a flying grenade. They care that all the features you're in here mouthing off about as "not important" are actually important.
Welcome to Dunning-Kruger Club. The first rule of Dunning-Kruger Club is that you don't know you're a member of Dunning-Kruger Club.
Yeah, with parts from China...but that's banned too.
Homegrown factories and supply chains don't just pop up overnight though. So in the near term this just means zero drones and a disorderly transition.
Intentionally triggering that only really makes sense if you think a major confrontation is imminent and chaos is an acceptable price to pay to force speed.
... the import of any foreign made drone parts is also blocked. This includes things like ESCs and flight controllers. Not just items that actually transmit radio signals like camera modules and so are traditionally regulated by the FCC re: import.
The best coverage of the FCCs over-reach attempting to regulate all parts, and then their subsequent very tiny walking of it back is Joshua Bardwell's video: https://youtu.be/Dyr87--SDuc (9m47s)
Almost all the new exceptions are for government users. The only thing relevant to human persons is the back-stepping change that as long as the components of a drone are 60% made in the USA the entire thing can be considered domestic and imported. Or US retail importers can take the risk of saying that a tx'ing camera module has alternate uses, like as a security camera, and try importing it regardless of the ban.
"FCC Updates Covered List to Exempt Certain Drones and Releases FAQs" https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-updates-covered-list-exempt...
The outcome of who can lawfully create and deploy eyes in the sky is the ultimate decider of the matter of who watches the watchers.
The stakes are significant.
Not to mention the targeted ad potential.
* https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/drone-company...
* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/27/donald-trump...
Also, from 2025:
> In October, Popular Information reported that the Pentagon awarded a contract to Unusual Machines, an obscure drone company that President Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr., joined as an advisor in November 2024, despite having no notable experience with drones or military contracting.
[…]
> Now, another small startup funded by 1789 Capital, a venture capital firm where Trump Jr. is a partner, will receive a $620 million loan from the Defense Department, the Financial Times reported. Vulcan Elements, which currently has around 30 employees, produces rare-earth magnets, which can be used in “drones, radar systems and other military applications.” The contract was awarded just three months after 1789 invested in Vulcan.
* https://popular.info/p/update-trump-jr-backed-startup-receiv...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073808
It's not necessarily better than 6 inches. But it's pretty decent, down to 0.3m, roughly 12 inches.
> even if they could do better I would question the utility of higher resolution data for anything military related.
Oh boy. Suffice to say that it definitely is useful for many things military related.
Can you give a single example?
It's not like weapons targeting needs to have high precision data. Robotics or drone planning definitely doesn't need high precision data. Nah. You're right. Higher precision data is absolutely useless to everything.
> "People flying DJI drones are mapping the US"
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1956955/000168316824...
https://theintercept.com/2025/07/28/donald-trump-jr-son-dron...
[1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/us-commerce-department-d...
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/01/supreme-court-ta...
The impact is more for bind and fly drones that are FCC approved so you don’t need a HAM license to operate them.
To me it also looks like there are also loopholes you could drive a truck through in terms of importing partially assembled drones that can be assembled by the end user as well as approving components by making their use not exclusive to UAS.
What actually happens remains to be seen because it really depends on what the enforcement actually looks like and how well work arounds work.
I think the real goal of the regulators is to ensure an onshore supply chain for government use and there won’t be a focus on civilian usage.
The problem is that it would be extremely risky for a US company to spin up a comparable US built drone. Even if they can match the price/quality point, at any given time the government could remove the ban, killing the entire business model.
Kapura•3w ago
It's no secret that the current U.S. regime views a sizeable portion of its own civilian citizens as enemy combatants. They are already shooting people in the face and not even putting up a pretense of acting shocked at the act. Historically, it is easier to win elections than revolutions; limiting access to game-changing technology puts the power advantage even more firmly in the corner of the regime.
spiderfarmer•3w ago
noonething•3w ago
jasonjayr•3w ago
When huge stories hit, and HN is overloaded, browing while logged out is the way to get through.
noonething•3w ago
shuntress•3w ago
spiderfarmer•3w ago
It’s not a conspiracy, it’s a business model and PR companies use them.
Alex2037•3w ago
there's always r/politics
goatlover•3w ago
Alex2037•3w ago
skeeter2020•3w ago
justin66•3w ago
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2025/10/02/faa-drone-zone-...
ericmay•3w ago
People can just record all this stuff on their iPhones that they already have. You don’t need a DJI drone to record police malfeasance. Maybe you do in China or Iran though. In Iran they are just mowing people down. In China you get disappeared. Interesting that there are no protests about those things though. I guess they just have better social media marketing.
watwut•3w ago
America is helping Russia with its invasion of Ukraine.
alex43578•3w ago
ceejayoz•3w ago
I'm inclined to think Ukraine is fighting our war for us.
The 1980s Cold Warriors would've been flabbergasted at how cheap taking out the Russian military at the knees would wind up being.
joe_mamba•3w ago
mikkupikku•3w ago
machomaster•3w ago
SanjayMehta•3w ago
Unlike Biden's Saigon 2.0 shambolic exit.
defrost•3w ago
begun in the prior US administration: https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal...
Biden followed through on a poisoned chalice.
skeeter2020•3w ago
alex43578•3w ago
Is there a war we needed to fight with Russia in this decade, the next decade, or the last, and if so, is Ukraine even damaging the parts that matter?
Russia nukes hold America at threat, not a bunch of conscripts and some old BMPs. America isn’t safer if Ukraine scores another 100K Russian casualties, and there’s even an argument that a destabilized, volatilized Russia would be more dangerous for America.
ericmay•3w ago
Europe is safer though, so there's that at least. Russia can't invade the United States of course, but it can invade other countries in Europe, and it is actively taking action to do so.
alex43578•3w ago
FpUser•3w ago
ericmay•3w ago
FpUser•3w ago
Ukraine is not in EU. As for the rest - if they don't then, well, they were just hiding behind the US with all the consequences.
machomaster•3w ago
So yeah, US investments in Ukraine directly benefit America. Ukrainians are fighting for Americans. So much so, that they are destroying Russia's nuclear weapons capabilities (destroying radars, strategic bombers, submarines and ships, weapons arsenal, ballistic rockets, carriers of nuclear weapons like Iskanders).
ericmay•3w ago
But that analysis is flawed, because the population of Europe isn’t one monolithic block that is guaranteed to respond to Russia with military force in such a way that a direct comparison of the numbers makes much sense. For example, what I mentioned already.
And your reply was Ukraine is not in the EU.
??
FpUser•3w ago
I think you putting words in my mouth. Quote me please. This was somebody else's statement
>"But that analysis is flawed, because the population of Europe isn’t one monolithic block that is guaranteed to respond to Russia"
And my answer was that if they do not they were just hiding behind the US all that time. If the EU will not fight for the EU then, well no need for me to continue..
>"And your reply was Ukraine is not in the EU"
This was in response to: "Will Germans accept being drafted to go fight in Ukraine". They (Germans) will most likely not accept and exactly for the reason that the Ukraine is not in the EU.
sophacles•3w ago
The price tag you quote is the same as the "an $X value thrown in for free" you see in "deals" from shady companies.
ericmay•3w ago
> The price tag you quote is the same as the "an $X value thrown in for free" you see in "deals" from shady companies.
So I don't think this is very accurate. Unless you want to suggest that funding, equipment, and more given under the Biden Administration, never mind US actions like sanctions, are the product of "shady deals".
alex43578•3w ago
Furthermore, the weapons had a cost when they were new, and replacing them now carries a higher cost.
Saying the price tag is fictional is like saying my dinner is free because the steak was already in my fridge.
leptons•3w ago
alex43578•3w ago
B) Ironic that you say some people have no ability to see the wider perspective while falling for the broken window fallacy of economics.
sophacles•3w ago
alex43578•3w ago
A basic understanding of economics would be useful for you to have in this thread.
We are sending Ukraine something of value: cash, weapons, whatever. That value leaves the US and therefore cannot be used for something else, fired in defense of US interests, or used to deter threats to the taxpayer who bought it.
Your initial point that “it’s fine to send this value to Ukraine because now we get to spend more money” to replace it is ridiculous.
sophacles•3w ago
machomaster•3w ago
watwut•3w ago
Second, Trump is very much helping Russia, literally taking Russian positions in negotiations and pressuring only on Ukraine - into bad deals.
Trump also talks admirably about Putin. So no, America switched sides.
ericmay•3w ago
Factually incorrect.
> Second, Trump is very much helping Russia, literally taking Russian positions in negotiations and pressuring only on Ukraine - into bad deals.
Again, factually incorrect. No deals between Russia and Ukraine have been made, the US continues to sanction Russia and Russian allies including seizure of tankers that are evading sanctions, and the US continues to provide arms, weapons sales, and intelligence to Ukraine including targeting intelligence for striking targets in Russia.
I understand having a different opinion early last year, but the tide has shifted significantly. You are behind the times.
Meanwhile China supplies Russia, India buys their weapons and oil, Iran supplies them with drones, Venezuela/Cuba and all of those shenanigans, Brazil is pro-Russia/neutral, and other countries throughout Latin America and Africa and elsewhere think that NATO started the war!
So no, America didn’t switch sides. The negotiation rhetoric and tactics did, but the end result has not changed. This is not up for debate.
SanjayMehta•3w ago
Also, a series of NATO exercises which involved Ukrainian troops were conducted during the Trump 1.0 regime.
Operation Rapid Trident. (Trident seems to be a reference to a Ukrainian symbol.)
Now imagine China or Russia conducting such a series of exercises in Mexico.
ericmay•3w ago
Even as recently as this past week the United States Navy has tracked down and seized Russian "shadow fleet" tankers which are operating despite American and European sanctions, and did so with Russian naval vessels nearby and despite strong protests and anger from Moscow. Hopefully Europe can step up its game and do so too.
But do you know who is helping Russia besides China? India. Iran, South America (Brazil, &c.), plenty of other countries. They've given no money, no aid, and are all too happy to buy illicit Russian oil.
SanjayMehta•3w ago
Of course, when we do it we're aiding Russia Russia Russia but when you aid and abet terrorists in say Pakistan that's "exporting democracy."
ericmay•3w ago
mikkupikku•3w ago
mikkupikku•3w ago
8note•3w ago
its very useful reporting updates about when the water will be back at full capacity.
skeeter2020•3w ago
aeternum•3w ago
johnmaguire•3w ago
CursedSilicon•3w ago
checks notes
software privacy than political disobedience
jameshart•3w ago
Federal laws about data collection and retention, export, and algorithmic usage… as well as laws about software update channels for hardware devices, eg requiring that it be possible to replace firmware yourself… all sorts of regulations could be put in place that leave the software and hardware markets open, by making it clear where the boundaries are. If DJI or TikTok are doing something bad, prosecute and fine them and enjoin them from doing it again… but make it clear what specific behavior you have a problem with.
techjamie•3w ago
skeeter2020•3w ago
stickfigure•3w ago
On the other hand, little drones are effectively munitions now. That means drone manufacturing capacity is effectively munitions manufacturing capacity. We're giving potential adversaries economies of scale building things that may be used to kill us.
I'm generally a pretty free market guy but the war in Ukraine has changed some things. My main complaint with this law is that it is so US focused; I'd be fine with drones built in Europe or Japan or other allied nations.
jayd16•3w ago
aardvarkr•3w ago
Even if they were considered arms for the purpose of 2a this isn’t a ban on drones but a specific manufacturer. They government can definitely refuse to grant a manufacturer license to sell on this country.
toast0•3w ago
542354234235•3w ago
mothballed•3w ago
The fact you can drive a 26,000 lb GVWR truck without any special license is something special we have in America compared to most of say, Europe. It's actually pretty mind blowing anyone can just rent 26 ft diesel 26,000 lb truck and get in and drive it on the highway.
It is testament to the fact there are a few vestiges of freedom left in America. Not much, but a few vestiges, since such trucks were around before the regulation hysteria of the late 20th century and 21st century.
skeeter2020•3w ago
No I need to go to a flea market for that.
It's not a specific manufacturer; it will impact US-made drones too, and based on how it's being rolled out is intended to shut down decent quality, inexpensive and easily-acquired drown sales - exactly what say, a journalist might want.
Ancapistani•3w ago
No, but you can walk down the street and buy all the components.
To buy the shells, there’s a $200 tax (each!) and a form you have to fill out.
mothballed•3w ago
SAM can't be bought for any tax and they come with lifetime in jail if you have them, even just for peaceful purposes.[]
Giving up air military supremacy isn't something the USA is going to yield to its citizens. The tax is reflective of the fact that machineguns and destructive devices can't be banned as they are "arms" that can merely be taxed, but the US doesn't considered air warfare weapons generally to be bearable arms.
As drones become a dominating form of air superiority I would expect they start to become more like SAMs -- not bearable arms but rather arms that merely having in your arms mean you go in a cage forever even if you have an NFA stamp affixed.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332g
axus•3w ago
efnx•3w ago
tejohnso•3w ago
efnx•3w ago
skeeter2020•3w ago
Herring•3w ago
Herring•3w ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/how-stop-m...
someguydave•3w ago
leptons•3w ago
He incited an insurrection last time he had power, in a desperate attempt to stay in power. Congress impeached him for it, but spineless Republicans refused to convict him for it. Then when he got power again, he pardoned everyone who took part in the insurrection. He's talked about having a 3rd term, so if you think he's just going to go away at the end of this term, you are mistaken.
elzbardico•3w ago
Clearly a hopeless case.
jadedanalyst•3w ago
I picked up an older DJI model in December and am super glad I did with recent events.
lazide•3w ago
HarHarVeryFunny•3w ago
giantrobot•3w ago
glaslong•3w ago
ivell•3w ago
Overall it is probably better for the world society in general that pretense is gone and the realpolitics is laid bare. The risks are no longer ambiguous but real and clearly stated and the world can plan mitigation accordingly.
AndrewKemendo•3w ago
This is a perspective that continues to boggle my mind.
Every record of the United States acting internationally has been either:
Explicitly horrific (Invasion of Grenada, Vietnam, Firebombing then nuking Tokyo, Iraq etc…)
Attempts to Subvert or ignore international law (IPCC, ICC, UN…)
Or benefits some major industrial corporation (NAFTA, WTO etc…)
Please point to any type of transcendent “morality or rules” that isn’t just straight up large scale international realpolitik and propaganda around maintaining global capitalism on behalf of American based owners.
ivell•3w ago
AndrewKemendo•3w ago
The word pretense to me means “we’re gonna actually try this and let’s see how it goes”
The United States has literally never done that and we know that because internal documentations for pretty much anything always have some kind of American benefit Nexus it is not based on any type of foundational belief that transcends the concept of “we’re gonna do whatever the people who are the loudest owners of the political system of the United States want to do”
Everything else including: Powell going to the UN with a vile full of rice is just straight up unabashed unequivocal propaganda
ivell•3w ago
an attempt to make something that is not the case appear true. E.g. "his anger is masked by a pretence that all is well"
AndrewKemendo•3w ago
machomaster•3w ago
andrewl•3w ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Agency_for_Inter...
Like all large organizations and projects they are not absolutely perfect or ethical, as you can see in the Concerns and criticism section towards the bottom of the Wikipedia page. Still, I think they made some contribution to humanity. I have seen articles saying the withdrawal of funding has definitely hurt communities USAID had been helping.
I know the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) do (or did) disease prevention work outside the US. There are other examples like these. I don’t know if the government did more good than bad, but they certainly have done some good that is not just designed to benefit American big capitalists.
loudmax•3w ago
America has always been at its best when it lives up to its ideals, and at its worst when it discards those ideals. America has often been in the wrong, but on balance, the world has been better off for having a great champion of liberal democracy.
With Trump, it's not a question of believing things that are right or wrong. For the post-truth mindset, right and wrong don't matter. Democracy doesn't matter. There is only power. The second Trump presidency is the first time in modern history that America is no longer a great nation.
ivell•3w ago
When there was a large scale genocide in Bangladesh by Pakistan, US not only implicitly supported Pakistan, but also attempted to block/attack India (not clear the intentions, but Soviets got involved). There are many such cases.
For rest of the world to believe that US has only best intentions, they have to be really naive. In case Saddam, would US have the same enthusiasm for democracy if it was not for oil? US has toppled democratic governments when they were not aligned to its interest.
To put it in personal terms, would anyone trust someone with their money to person who only cheats 70% of times, while is honest 30% of times? The conclusion to be had is that those in incidents of honesty aligned with the interests of the person. Not because he or she was actually a good person.
elzbardico•3w ago
This says enough.
machomaster•3w ago
1. Relationship between USA and Kurds. Kurds have been helping Americans, putting lives on the line, are a rare democratic and free side in the region, but are constantly being violated by Americans despite that.
2. Syria. No problem supporting the literal Alqaeda leader!
3. Just a history of supporting dictators. Chile and Americas, Asia, Europe (Spain, Greece, Portugal).
4. Even currently, no problem supporting e.g. Saudis.
doodlebugging•3w ago
The push into Iraq to remove Hussein was an effort to gain control over the oil and gas production in Iraq. It was favored by the domestic oil and gas industry here in the US and once we had boots on the ground in Afghanistan after Sept 11 and Bush&Co began making noise about Iraq and WoMD, the industry began digging up old geological and geophysical studies of the region to build interest and knowledge base domestically so that once our troops had control of the production areas domestic operators could move in to handle production. Industry publications had adverts for old Iraq datasets and services related to it before any invasion happened. Maybe they were just hedging their bets you say. Yeah, right. It was always about oil and gas in Iraq. They just needed to remove the thorn in their side and install a compliant government.
elzbardico•3w ago
There's not a single drop of evidence supporting that. But we have madleine albright callously dismissing the death of an enormous amount of kids.
someguydave•3w ago
SanjayMehta•3w ago
The only reason why the dollar has had any value since 1971 is due to Nixon's brilliant creation of the petro-dollar.
It's allowed them to export inflation to the rest of the world.
Trump gets it, and the only reason for kidnapping Maduro is again oil.
If a country has oil, and no nukes, in due course the US will invade.
reactordev•3w ago
We have a very healthy FPV community here in the states perfectly capable of building drones from parts just like Ukraine is doing.
skeeter2020•3w ago
WinstonSmith84•3w ago
KolibriFly•3w ago
Kapura•3w ago
bdavisx•3w ago
shigawire•3w ago
klipklop•3w ago
Drones are not going away in the US, they will just not be made by their primary political adversary. Let's not be hyperbolic, the US is nowhere close to having a revolution or civil War. People need to stop getting their primary world view from doom scrolling instagram or reddit.
fn-mote•3w ago
klipklop•3w ago
eggnet•3w ago
QuantumGood•3w ago
The language of the goverment has shifted to "war" such as:
A few other factors from a choice of dozens: Recent lawsuits: I wouldn't say the US is "nowhere close", recognizing that "getting close" is not the same as "happening", and recognizing that "revolution" and "civil war" are not the only possible terms, and that it is a matter of degree.like_any_other•3w ago
Are you talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Justine_Damond? Yes her killer got off with a slap on the wrist, but even in 2017 when that happened it was nothing new - there have been plenty of unjustified or dubious police killings before and since [1], so I'm confused by that "already" in your sentence - nothing has changed, has it?
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...
m463•3w ago
it is horrible. You cannot fly them with the controller without installing the app, which reports all data to china and has automatic software update.
I mean, all other software does this too, but your robot vacuum is not going to take off and fly into your local airfield or power substation.
I wish we had MORE government pushback on this kind of thing. I'm just as surprised with texas and tv sets with ACR nonsense.