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Why Real Life is better than IRC (2000)

https://everything2.com/node/e2node/Why%20Real%20Life%20is%20better%20than%20IRC
28•themaxdavitt•4d ago

Comments

bitwize•1h ago
This is why I resolved to meet my now-wife in person, some 20 years after we first met on IRC.
emtel•1h ago
I can't believe everything2 still exists!
NoWayDude1•26m ago
That was my first reaction without even reading. 27 years and still running!
keithnz•1h ago
I was on IRC really early, 91, and it was great, there wasn't that many people on there and it felt way more international and you naturally ended up talking to people from all around the world (I'm from NZ). I even did two overseas trips to meet all kinds of people in real life and experiencing all kinds of slices of other peoples worlds. As more and more people got on the internet people ended up talking much more with locals (except for special interest groups). I'm still in contact with one of the very first friends I made on IRC (who is in the US) and have met them multiple times over the years
kankerlijer•1h ago
Same. I randomly had time off and someone in IRC noticed. I traveled from the US to Germany to hang out with them. Their brother was involved in BMW racing, and we hung out at Stuttgart for a few weekends in a trailer. Some of the best weeks of my life.
crims0n•1h ago
As the last generation that remembers what life was like before the internet, we need to ask ourselves - is the world we built better than the one we were born into? The older I get, the less convinced I am. It's not just nostalgia, as affirmed by Gen Zs rejection of the digital world.
anonymous908213•1h ago
I don't think this is a very difficult question to answer. The internet of the year 2000 made the world a better place. The internet of the year 2025 makes the world a much, much worse place. We now live in an era where not only governments but every private business willing to pay a data broker has access to unlimited data for roughly every individual in a population, including their age, gender, occupation, hobbies, friends, political positions, sleep schedule, every phone call they've ever made, every website they've ever visited, every location they've ever taken their phone, every thing they've ever purchased. This information is currently used to shape the course of politics by manipulating what every individual sees, and will undoubtedly be used for unthinkable crimes against humanity in the coming years.
quietsegfault•1h ago
I'm not sure that's the /internet/'s fault, but the humanities inability to anticipate what we can do with the technology and our inability to regulate the technology to prevent harms.
georgemcbay•47m ago
> humanities inability to anticipate what we can do with the technology

I think it is more a problem of not caring (especially when not caring will result in social and/or economic reward) rather than not anticipating.

For any technology that is created you can and should anticipate that it will be, literally, weaponized since there are hundreds of thousands of years of precedent for this happening.

immibis•25m ago
We - technologists - mocked the humanities for decades for being useless. Now look where we got without them.
SoftTalker•56m ago
> The internet of the year 2000 made the world a better place

How so? Because we could send mail instantly instead of using a stamp and envelope?

Because we could buy stuff without leaving the house?

Because we could read/listen to/watch stuff without paying the people who created it?

anonymous908213•54m ago
For many reasons, but if I had to pick one for brevity: because there was unprecedented access to educational information, allowing anyone to learn about the world and develop skills that would typically have required a university education. Of course, even that has been corrupted, and now while the information still exists it is drowned out by orders of magnitude more misinformation.

That's not to say that the internet in 2000 was without flaws, but I do think on net it was beneficial to humanity.

1bpp•53m ago
Yes. The current generation of creatives could not exist as it is without free information and pirated professional software.
kace91•40m ago
>Because we could read/listen to/watch stuff without paying the people who created it?

I can tell you I wouldn’t be anywhere close to where I am without this, yes.

First because I (/my parents) didn’t have the money, second because of pure geographical access.

I saw movies and shows from countries that would never sell near me, read books that would never be in my country’s libraries, took courses straight from scientists and engineers rather than a thrice translated work…

The barrier of entry was also useful, curiosity is much better fed when you can download a medicine textbook just to check rather than venturing into the library of a university you’re not part of.

That is the one thing the internet did right, spreading culture. It was over when they took boredom from us, that was the big evil.

huhkerrf•1h ago
There has been a lot of bad things about the technology of the past 30 years, but I refuse to say that things were fantastic pre-Internet. The fact that I can listen to any music I want for less than it cost me to buy a CD in 1995, not even adjusted for inflation, is amazing. The massive CD book I carried around is definitely nostalgia.

Or, I can think of something, and find the answer quickly. I can make friends with people (or argue with them) across continents.

Still, there are things that I do miss that were objectively "worse." Like there only being a few dozen channels, and cable TV being less important, so you knew everyone was watching the same thing. There seemed to be more of a shared culture.

AuthAuth•1h ago
There is no "GenZ rejection of the digital world" thats a marketing narrative. Gen Z is overwhelmingly online and the handful that do reject it are no more than a rounding error.
venndeezl•54m ago
We built?

You mean innumerate and STEM ignorant politicians manipulated by tech bros high on their own supply financially engineered into existence?

Poverty wages everywhere except tech jobs was intentional. Ignoring the externalities like reliance on sweatshop labor and sacrificing diverse skills development was intentional. Little different than what they are doing with the ICE hiring bonus.

They got employees to go where they wanted; not operating from a diverse playbook: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/27/business/job-insecurity-o...

Offshoring the late 90s and 00s was 100% meant to protect Intel, copyright; this isn't anything we did. Broad strokes were gamed out 2 decades ago.

The elder politicians don't want Americans in a position to win. They didn't want the risk of open compute production thriving in America; back in the 00s Napster made the threat to their IP and copyright schemes obvious.

They want political serfdom, fealty to elders delusion about themselves. We did little but follow orders because what choice did we have?

I am not owning this circus.

tac19•20m ago
If you think there is ever any other outcome for a democracy, you are part owner in what we built. Corruption and capture are inevitable, and blaming the particular politicians in power today, misses the point. They're only in power because at every step along the way, we the people happily swallowed beautiful lies in exchange for the "freebies" that trickled down to us.

If you imagine we just got unlucky with the _wrong_ people in power, you haven't yet learned the real lesson, and are doomed to support the entire thing continuing, or being reborn in new form.

jl6•51m ago
To answer this question honestly, you have to ask: if you could time travel back to live in, say, 1990, would you? You don't get to just dial the internet back to 1990, you have to dial the rest of the world back too. The world is a package deal.

I think a lot of people would be tempted by the nostalgia, but would quickly realize how much they'd be giving up.

atherton94027•47m ago
What would they be giving up? DoorDash?

By most aspects the world of 1990 didn't change that much from today's world, with the exception of having computers in our pockets and some advances in medicine.

doubled112•14m ago
I think you can go back further

I used to work with a guy who would tell me that, except email, life didn’t really change since the 80s. All we did was stick a screen onto everything, whether we needed to or not.

I was only born in the 90s but I mostly agree that far back.

immibis•23m ago
It's hard to commit to saying yes but it's also hard to commit to saying no.
toast0•4m ago
I think there's a lot of people where 1990 social norms and pressure caused existential distress; or they lived in a repressive regime then and not now, etc. So I wouldn't wish to have those things back for those people. There's also a lot of health advances that I wouldn't want to turn back either.

But the internet and technology in general was so much more fun and exciting back then than it is now, IMHO. I'm sure some of my feelings there is nostalgia and youth or lack thereof, but a circa 1995 Socket 7 desktop motherboard could take cpus from Intel, AMD, Cyrix, IDT, and some others, and then there were all the non-pc options; that's a lot of competition and fun. Video game consoles were meaningfully different than each other, instead of the massively consolidated situation we have now. Arcade machines were more capable beyond just having large screens and specialized input devices.

I didn't get on the Internet until ~ 95, but at least for several years after that, it was a community of choice, rather than a place everyone had to assemble. That made interaction special in a lot of ways that are hard to reproduce now.

I could certainly live with larger bid/ask spreads and fractional rather than decimal stock pricing as well as no odd lots and T+3? settlement. Current situation is better, but it's really not a huge deal. I can wait for slow shipping, and call people on the phone to make special orders...

ferguess_k•40m ago
For me the late 80s - early 2000s was the peak. But I guess every generation has their own peak and I totally respect that.

That said, the later generations probably are going to have a more shitty life, because of economic downturn since 2008. I can't even imagine what kind of life my son (5Y) is going to live through whence the cyberpunk world falls.

jrm4•59m ago
First of all

Everything2 is still around? whoooa, totally forgot about that. Gotta definitely get back into that. That seems like one of those great anti-modern-social-media ideas that the kids might like to learn about.

aforty•51m ago
Ah damn this brings back memories… shout out if you were on #windows98, #windows2000 or #windowsxp on EFnet circa 97-01.
corykrug•43m ago
or #winxp but I could be thinking of DALnet...
noneparticular•43m ago
Really... not sure I can agree with any of this.

>If you do phone a friend at 4am to say "I'm down" they take it seriously.

Well, I mean I've never had friends so I can't really say too much about that. But I never really had anyone in my life that would do that so... eh?

> In RL, you can be alone on purpose without seeming antisocial.

>People try to get you to stay "just a little longer" and make you feel wanted.

No one's ever done that for me. Quite the opposite actually. I'm rather repulsive in real life so most people would prefer me away in real life.

> A hug is always nice, but a real, close, body-touching real life hug is … nicer :)

Is it? The two times I've been hugged in my life have been more just uncomfortable.

> You can know for sure that people who are being nice to your face aren't simultaneously bitching behind your back

... my father was praised as being a good man. He was also the same man that grabbed by my hair and violently introduced my face to the kitchen floor. Broke my nose and lip, then made me clean the blood up with my tongue as apology to him for forcing him to hit me. He's flung coins into my face hard enough to cut the skin. Broken coffee mugs over my head.

I don't blame him for doing what he did; I was difficult as a child. But it never really made any sense to me why his peers would praise him for being good when there was so much controversy over just spanking a child vs what happened to me when it seemed perfectly normal to me to get hit with a stick hard enough to bruise for a month afterwards.

Always made me wonder what else someone would hide from strangers.

> You can hear the warmth in the voice that says 'I love you' and see the look in the person's eyes

... This is something I've kind of wanted to rant about for a while. But no. I don't want love in my life. 25 years of my life were spent receiving bruises, cuts, and humiliation because my parents loved me. And I spent 25 years enduring it in silence because I loved them. Because that's what you're supposed to do when you love someone.

They're gone now. And I've had more then enough love in my life to say that I want no part of it anymore.

No, I think the quiet of an IRC screen is quite a quite a bit more preferable to outside.

yakkomajuri•37m ago
Hey, I'm sorry you had to go through everything you've described here.

I've never had to go through anything remotely similar.

I'd just want to point out what you've experienced is not love. There may have been some form of love from those people towards you, but the things you've described are not manifestations of that love, they're manifestations of something else.

I hope you can believe me. Sorry if I'm intruding.

My email is on my bio if you ever want to chat in a non-public setting.

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https://everything2.com/node/e2node/Why%20Real%20Life%20is%20better%20than%20IRC
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