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Oneplus phone update introduces hardware anti-rollback

https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Oneplus_phone_update_introduces_hardware_anti-rollback
228•validatori•2h ago

Comments

raizer88•1h ago
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
Raed667•1h ago
I think the writing has been on the wall since they started their Nord line.
alluro2•1h ago
Do you mean because the previous "flagship killer" company now needed a "flagship killer" sub-brand, since they could no longer be categorised as such?
Raed667•1h ago
Exactly, why did they end up in a situation where they are making killers of their "main" phones ?
zozbot234•54m ago
Because all midrange phones are "flagship killers" on a features basis now, flagships are just about the exclusivity. The market has adapted and the term no longer makes much sense. OnePlus still leads on custom ROM support though, e.g. no special codes or waiting times needed for unlocking the bootloader, it all works out of the box with standard commands.
Sebb767•1h ago
What was the issue with the Nord line?
em-bee•34m ago
yeah, i'd like to know that too. i have a oneplus nord running /e/OS and i am quite happy with it. in fact it's probably the best phone i had so far performance wise (i got it refurbished at a very good price which may have something to do with that though)
jsheard•43m ago
I think the turning point was when they "merged" their Android distro development with Oppo's, which in practice meant adopting Oppo's distro with minimal changes. OnePlus was always affiliated with Oppo but they used to have a lot more independence.

(and yeah, that's also around when the Nord line started)

Retr0id•1h ago
Blind speculation: I wonder if this is in some way related to DRM getting broken at a firmware level, leading to a choice being made between "users complain that they can't watch netflix" and "users complain that they can't install custom ROMs".
dcdc123•1h ago
It was because a method was discovered to bypass the lockout of stolen devices.
userbinator•43m ago
In other words the same old boogeyman they always use to justify this crap.
IshKebab•1h ago
Why? What advantage do they get from this? I'm assuming it's not a good one but I'm struggling to see what it is at all.
hexagonwin•1h ago
They can kill custom roms and force the latest vendor firmware. If they push a shitty update that slows down the phone or something, users have no choice other than buying a new device.
bcraven•1h ago
The article suggests custom roms can just be updated to be 'newer' than this.

At the moment they're 'older' and would class as a rollback, which this fuse prevents.

jeroenhd•6m ago
They patched a low-level vulnerability in their boot process. Their phones' debug features would allow attackers to load an old, unpatched version of their (signed) software and exploit it if they didn't do some kind of downgrade prevention.

Using eFuses is a popular way of implementing downgrade prevention, but also for permanently disabling debug flags/interfaces in production hardware.

Some vendors (AMD) also use eFuses to permanently bond a CPU to a specific motherboard (think EPYC chips for certain enterprise vendors).

WaitWaitWha•1h ago
Is this for just one or several OnePlus models?

If so, is this 'fuse' per-planned in the hardware? My understanding is cell phones take 12 to 24 months from design to market. so, initial deployment of the model where this OS can trigger the 'fuse' less one year is how far back the company decided to be ready to do this?

TomatoCo•1h ago
Lots of CPUs that have secure enclaves have a section of memory that can be written to only once. It's generally used for cryptographic keys, serials, etcetera. It's also frequently used like this.
scbzzzzz•1h ago
What do OnePlus gain from this? Can someone explain me what are the advantages of OnePlus doing all this? A failed update resulting in motherboard replacement? More money, more shareholders are happy?

I still sometimes ponder if oneplus green line fiasco is a failed hardware fuse type thing that got accidentally triggered during software update. (Insert I can't prove meme here).

TomatoCo•1h ago
My understanding is there was a bug that let you wipe and re-enable a phone that had been disabled due to theft. This prevents a downgrade attack. It's in OnePlus's interest to make their phones less appealing for theft, or, in their interest to comply with requirements to be disableable from carriers, Google, etc.
scbzzzzz•1h ago
Make perfect sense, Thanks kind stranger. Hope it is the reason and not some corporate greed. It on me, lately my thoughts are defaulted towards corporates sabotaging consumers. I need to work on it.

The effects on custom os community is causing me worried ( I am still rocking my oneplus 7t with crdroid and oneplus used to most geek friendly) Now I am wondering if there are other ways they could achieved the same without blowing a fuse or be more transparent about this.

zozbot234•1h ago
I don't think so. Blowing a fuse is just how the "no downgrades" policy for firmware is implemented. No different for other vendors actually, though the software usually warns you prior to installing an update that can't be manually rolled back.
chasil•48m ago
Are you quite certain?

Google pushed a non-downgradable final update to the Pixel 6a.

I was able to install Graphene on such a device. Lineage was advertised and completely incompatible, but some hinted it would work.

cess11•49m ago
As I understand it, this is a similar thing on Samsung handhelds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox

itsdesmond•42m ago
> It on me, lately my thoughts are defaulted towards corporates sabotaging consumers. I need to work on it.

You absolutely do not, this is an extremely healthy starting position for evaluating a corporations behavior. Any benefit you receive is incidental, if they made more money by worsening your experience they would.

wnevets•56m ago
> My understanding is there was a bug that let you wipe and re-enable a phone that had been disabled due to theft. This prevents a downgrade attack.

This makes sense and much less dystopia than some of the other commenters are suggesting.

userbinator•36m ago
That's even more dystopian.
Zigurd•39m ago
Carriers can check a registry of stolen phone IMEIs and block them from their networks.
reaperducer•33m ago
There is a surprising number of carriers in the world that don't care if you're using a stolen phone.

Not surprisingly, stolen phones tend to end up in those locations.

gsich•33m ago
I have never seen this happen.

I have however experienced that a ISP will write to you because you have a faulty modem (some Huawei device) and asks you to not use it anymore.

TehCorwiz•30m ago
Visit eBay and search for "blocked IMEI" or variants. There are plenty of used phones which are IMEI locked due to either: reported lost, reported stolen, failed to make payments, etc.
gsich•28m ago
All offers seem to be from the US.
segmondy•17m ago
right, but the stolen phones get sold in other countries where the carriers don't care if the phone was stolen but care that someone is spending money on their service.
HiPhish•10m ago
> It's in OnePlus's interest to make their phones less appealing for theft,

I don't believe for a second that this benefits phone owners in any way. A thief is not going to sit there and do research on your phone model before he steals it. He's going to steal whatever he can and then figure out what to do with it.

lxgr•5m ago
It actually seems to work pretty well for iPhones.

Thieves these days seem to really be struggling to even use them for parts, since these are also largely Apple DRMed, and are often resorting to threatening the previous owner to remove the activation lock remotely.

Of course theft often isn't preceded by a diligent cost-benefit analysis, but once there's a critical mass of unusable – even for parts – stolen phones, I believe it can make a difference.

lotu•4m ago
Yes thieves do, research on which phones to steal. Just not online more in personal talking with their network of lawbreakers. In short a thief is going to have a fence, and that person is going to know all about what phones can and cannot be resold.
rvnx•1h ago
It is the same concept on an iPhone, you have 7 days to downgrade, then it is permanently impossible. Not for technical reasons, but because of an arbitrary lock (achieved through signature).

OnePlus just chose the hardware way, versus Apple the signature way

Whether for OnePlus or Apple, there should definitively be a way to let users sign and run the operating system of their choice, like any other software.

(still hating this iOS 26, and the fact that even after losing all my data and downgrading back iOS 18 it refused to re-sync my Apple Watch until iOS 26 was installed again, shitty company policy)

Muromec•10m ago
> Not for technical reasons, but because of an arbitrary lock (achieved through signature).

There is a good reason to prevent downgrades -- older versions have CVEs and some are actually exploitable.

drnick1•39m ago
> What do OnePlus gain from this? Can someone explain me what are the advantages of OnePlus doing all this?

They don't want the hardware to be under your control. In the mind of tech executives, selling hardware does not make enough money, the user must stay captive to the stock OS where "software as a service" can be sold, and data about the user can be extracted.

palata•21m ago
> In the mind of tech executives

To be fair, they are right: the vast majority of users don't give a damn. Unfortunately I do.

jeroenhd•11m ago
A bit overdramatic, isn't it? Custom ROMs designed for the new firmware revisions still work fine. Only older ROMs with potentially vulnerable bootloader code cause bricking risks.

Give ROM developers a few weeks and you can boot your favourite custom ROMs again.

jeroenhd•13m ago
Their low-level bootloader code contains a vulnerability that allows an attacker with physical access to boot an OS of their choice.

Android's normal bootloader unlock procedure allows for doing so, but ensures that the data partition (or the encryption keys therefore) are wiped so that a border guard at the airport can't just Cellebrite the phone open.

Without downgrade protection, the low-level recovery protocol built into Qualcomm chips would permit the attacker to load an old, vulnerable version of the software, which has been properly signed and everything, and still exploit it. By preventing downgrades through eFuses, this avenue of attack can be prevented.

This does not actually prevent running custom ROMs, necessarily. This does prevent older custom ROMs. Custom ROMs developed with the new bootloader/firmware/etc should still boot fine.

This is why the linked article states:

> The community recommendation is that users who have updated should not flash any custom ROM until developers explicitly announce support for fused devices with the new firmware base.

Once ROM developers update their ROMs, the custom ROM situation should be fine again.

syntaxing•1h ago
OnePlus has pretty much become irrelevant since Carl Pei left the company. Its more or less just a rebranded Oppo nowadays. I'm not an android user anymore but I'm rooting for his new(ish) Nothing company. Hopefully it carries the torch for the old OnePlus feel.
Raed667•1h ago
As an early OnePlus user (1, 3, 5, 7, 13) i find myself unimpressed with what Nothing is proposing, feels more like a design exercise than a flagship killer
skeledrew•46m ago
I've been with OnePlus since the beginning, and am not at all impressed by the Nothing. Primary missing feature which I've come to depend on, off screen gestures, is missing. And the device just comes across as foreign in general; makes me think of the iPhone, which is not something I want to think of.
opan•44m ago
They consistently have allowed bootloader unlocking without extra fuss and have had good LineageOS support. That is their main appeal, IMO. Nothing phones had no LineageOS support until recently (spacewar is now supported, unsure about other models), and it's not clear if there's enough of a community/following to keep putting LineageOS on them. I do not want any phone where I'm stuck with the stock ROM.
zozbot234•35m ago
Nothing phones also allow seamless bootloader unlocking, just like OnePlus. There's been some rumors that OnePlus might be about to exit the market altogether, if so Nothing will probably expand into their niche and beyond their current approach based on "unique" design.
bflesch•1h ago
How likely is it that such software-activated fuse-based kill switches are built into iPhones? Any insights?
jacquesm•1h ago
I'd say for commercial hardware it is a near certainty even if you won't ever know until it is much too late.

Realize that many of these manufacturers sell their hardware in and employ companies in highly policed societies. Just the fact that they are allowed to continue to operate implies that they are playing ball and may well have to perform a couple of favors. And that's assuming they are fully aware of what they are shipping, which may not be always the case.

I don't think it is a bad model at all to consider any cell phone to be compromised in multiple ways even though you don't have hard proof.

hexagonwin•1h ago
iPhones already cannot be downgraded, they can only install OS versions signed by apple during the install time. (search SHSH blobs) They also can't run unsigned IPA files (apps). Not sure if they have a physical fuse, but it's not much different.
hoistbypetard•52m ago
The significant difference is that if it were placed into DFU mode and connected to an appropriate device that had access to appropriately signed things, it could be "unbricked" without replacing the mainboard.
hexagonwin•19m ago
true, but I believe these bricked oneplus devices can also be revived from 9008 (EDL) if they can find the qualcomm firehorse loader file.
Retr0id•1h ago
The M-series CPUs found in iPads (which cannot boot custom payloads) are the same as the M-series CPUs found in Macbooks (which can boot custom payloads) - just with different fuses pre-burnt during manufacturing.

Pre-prod (etc.) devices will also have different fuses burnt.

mort96•52m ago
So this article isn't about a kill switch, just blocking downgrades and custom ROMs.

But to answer your question: we know iPhones have a foolproof kill switch, it's a feature. Just mark your device as lost in Find My and it'll be locked until someone can provide your login details. Assuming it requires logging in to your Apple account (which it does, AFAIK; I don't think logging in to a local account is enough), this is the same as a remote kill switch; Apple could simply make a device enter this locked-down state and then tweak their server systems to deny logins.

tripdout•1h ago
> When the device powers on, the Primary Boot Loader in the processor's ROM loads and verifies the eXtensible Boot Loader (XBL). XBL reads the current anti-rollback version from the Qfprom fuses and compares it against the firmware's embedded version number. If the firmware version is lower than the fuse value, boot is rejected. When newer firmware successfully boots, the bootloader issues commands through Qualcomm's TrustZone to blow additional fuses, permanently recording the new minimum version

What exactly is it comparing? What is the “firmware embedded version number”? With an unlocked bootloader you can flash boot and super (system, vendor, etc) partitions, but I must be missing something because it seems like this would be bypassable.

It does say

> Custom ROMs package firmware components from the stock firmware they were built against. If a user's device has been updated to a fused firmware version & they flash a custom ROM built against older firmware, the anti-rollback mechanism triggers immediately.

and I know custom ROMs will often say “make sure you flash stock version x.y beforehand” to ensure you’re on the right firmware, but I’m not sure what partitions that actually refers to (and it’s not the same as vendor blobs), or how much work it is to either build a custom ROM against a newer firmware or patch the (hundreds of) vendor blobs.

jacquesm•1h ago
This goes beyond the 'right to repair' to simply the right of ownership. These remote updates prove again and again that even though you paid for something you don't actually own it.
mystraline•51m ago
Indeed.

My ownership is proved by my receipt from the store I bought it from.

This vandalization at scale is a CFAA violation. I'd also argue it is a fraudulent sale since not all rights were transferred at sale, and misrepresented a sale instead of an indefinite rental.

And its likely a RICO act, since the C levels and BOD likely knew and/or ordered it.

And damn near everything's wire fraud.

But if anybody does manage to take them to court and win, what would we see? A $10 voucher for the next Oneplus phone? Like we'd buy another.

amelius•36m ago
Their defense would probably be like: "you clicked Yes on the EULA form."
dataflow•35m ago
As far as legal arguments go, I imagine their first counter would be that you agreed to the update, so it's on you.
mystraline•22m ago
A forced update or continual loop of "yes" or "later" is not consent. The fact that there is no "No" option shows that.

Fabricated or fake consent, or worse, forced automated updates, indicates that the company is the owner and exerting ownership-level control. Thus the sale was fraudulently conducted as a sale but is really an indefinite rental.

bloomingeek•38m ago
It's basically the same for our automobiles, just try to disable the "phone home" parts connected to the fin on the roof. Do we really own out cars if we can't stop the manufacturer from telling us we need to change our oil through email?
reaperducer•30m ago
Buy a Volvo. Then you can pop out the SIM card to disable the car's cellular communication. (On mine, located behind the mirror.)

When you really need it, like to download maps into the satnav, you can connect it to your home WiFi, or tether via Bluetooth.

Tarball10•16m ago
Until they switch to eSIM...
blibble•9m ago
cut the antenna
jeroenhd•4m ago
... and get a Check Engine light+fault code for the built-in emergency SOS feature, thereby making it unable to pass vehicle inspection until you fix the antennae
g-b-r•5m ago
Chinese-owned Volvo?

OnePlus and other Chinese brands were modders-friendly until they suddenly weren't, I wouldn't rely on your car not getting more hostile at a certain point

hypeatei•1h ago
It's my first time hearing about this "eFuse" functionality in Qualcomm CPUs. Are there non-dystopian uses for this as a manufacturer?
Retr0id•1h ago
eFuses are in most CPUs, often used for things like disabling hardware debug interfaces in production devices - and rollback prevention.
hexagonwin•1h ago
Samsung uses this for their Knox security feature. The fuse gets broken in initial bootloader unlock, and all features related to Knox (Samsung Pay, Secure Folder, etc) gets disabled permanently even after reverting to stock firmware.
thesh4d0w•1h ago
I use them in an esp32 to write a random password to each of my products, so when I sell them they can each have their own secure default wifi password while all using the same firmware.
zozbot234•1h ago
According to OP this does not disable bootloader unlocking in itself. It makes the up-versioned devices incompatible with all previous custom ROMs, but it should be possible to develop new ROM releases that are fully compatible with current eFuse states and don't blow the eFuse themselves.
palata•20m ago
I understand that there is a nuance somewhere, but that's about it.

Can you explain it in simpler terms such that an idiot like me can understand? Like what would an alternative OS have to do to be compatible with the "current eFuse states"?

Muromec•7m ago
People need to re-sign their releases and include the newer version of bootloader, more or less.
charcircuit•1h ago
This is industry standard. Flashing old updates that are insecure to bypass security is a legitimate attack vector that needs to be defended against. Ideally it would still be possible up recover from such a scenario by flashing the latest update.
mystraline•54m ago
Its high time we start challenging these sorts of actions as the "vandalization and sabotage at scale" that these attacks really are. I dont see how these aren't a direct violation of the CFAA, over millions of customer-owned hardware.

They are no different than some shit ransomware, except there is no demand for money. However, there is a demonstrable proof of degradation and destruction of property in all these choices.

Frankly, criminal AND civil penalties should be levied. Criminally, the C levels and boars of directors should all be in scope as to encouraging/allowing/requiring this behavior. RICO act as well, since this smells like a criminal conspiracy. Let them spend time in prison for mass destruction of property.

Civally, start dissolving assets until the people are made whole with unbroken (and un-destroyed) hardware.

The next shitty silly-con valley company thinks about running this scam of 'customer-bought but forever company owned', will think long and hard about the choices of their network and cloud.

skeledrew•41m ago
> no demand for money

There is when the device becomes hard bricked and triggers an unnecessary need for a new one.

skeledrew•54m ago
This is absolutely cracked. I've been with OnePlus since the One, also getting the 2, 6 and now I have the 12. Stuck with them all these years because I really respected their - original - take on device freedom. I really should've seen the writing on the wall given how much pain it is to update it in the first place, as I have the NA version which only officially allows carrier updates, and I don't live in NA (and even if I did I'd still not be tied to a carrier).

Now I have to consider my device dead re updates, because if I haven't already gotten the killing update I'd rather avoid it. First thing I did was unlock the bootloader, and I intend to root/flash it at some point. Will be finding another brand whenever I'm ready to upgrade again.

dataflow•39m ago
This wasn't their only pain point. [1] Just get off OnePlus, you'll be happier.

[1] https://dontkillmyapp.com/oneplus

BeetleB•20m ago
What are good alternatives that aren't Pixel?
palata•18m ago
For now, Pixels. I'm waiting to see what non-Pixel phone will be supported by GrapheneOS next, but this may take a while.
RugnirViking•52m ago
isnt this just like... vandalism? nothing could give them the right to do this, they're damaging others property indescriminately.
jijji•44m ago
im sure that is not going to improve their sales numbers
pengaru•39m ago
Glad I didn't give these people any of my hard earned dollars.
userbinator•38m ago
I'm not sure if this is the case anymore, but many unbranded/generic Androids used to be completely unlocked by default (especially Mediatek SoCs) and nearly unbrickable, and that's what let the modding scene flourish. I believe they had efuses too, but software never used them.
1a527dd5•34m ago
I look forward to the 1hr+ rant from Louis Rossmann.
poizan42•16m ago
He has already made the video on this, but it is only 3:23: https://youtu.be/3AiRB5mvEsk?si=XapAHhHRJtssDI4F
mycall•30m ago
How hard is it to fix a fuse with a microscope and a steady hand?
piskov•24m ago
So that’s how in an event of war US adversaries will be relieved of their devices

> The anti-rollback mechanism uses Qfprom (Qualcomm Fuse Programmable Read-Only Memory), a region on Qualcomm processors containing one-time programmable electronic fuses.

What a nice thoughtful people to build such a feature

rwmj•18m ago
There's so many ways to do this, but a simpler method is to hide a small logic block (somewhere in the 10 billion transistors of your CPU) that detects a specific, long sequence of bits and invokes the kill switch.
Muromec•17m ago
This kind of thing is generally used to disallow downgrading the bootloader once there is a bug in chain of trust handling of the bootloader. Otherwise once broken is forever broken. It makes sense from the trusted computing perspective to have this. It's not even new, it was still there on p2k motorollas 25 years ago.

You may not want trusted computing and root/jailbreak everything as a consumer, but building one is not inherently evil.

piskov•14m ago
> It's not even new, it was still there on p2k motorollas 25 years ago.

I’m sure CIA was not founded after covid :-)

obnauticus•7m ago
Uhh…Wut?
poizan42•11m ago
Does anyone know if it has been confirmed that this only applies to the "ColorOS" branded firmware versions? Because I currently have an update to OxygenOS 16.0.3.501 pending on my OnePlus 15, which is presumably built from the same codebase.
InsomniacL•10m ago
Does intentionally physically damaging a device fall foul of any laws that a software restriction otherwise wouldn't?
plutokras•8m ago
Nintendo has been doing this for ages.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30773214

First, make me care

https://gwern.net/blog/2026/make-me-care
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Oneplus phone update introduces hardware anti-rollback

https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Oneplus_phone_update_introduces_hardware_anti-rollback
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