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Why do RSS readers look like email clients?

https://www.terrygodier.com/phantom-obligation
55•zdw•5h ago

Comments

kmarc•4h ago
This was an interesting read for me. I'm mostly aware of the _problem_, however, never wondered how that could be fixed with other designs, I guess he is working on something that implements one of his proposals (river/window/bonfire)

I am one of the hoarders who has saved Inoreader items, a "Later" bookmark folder with (once thought as) interesting stuff in it, obsidian we clips for the ones what are so precious I for sure didn't just want to reference to but actually make a copy of. But it's under control. It doesn't give me anxiety knowing that I "should" go through them, because... I often do.

I'm surprised that the "first" of these layouts only appeared in 2002. I would have sworn I used Akregator since 1999

akadruid1•59m ago
You're right, and the article is wrong. 3 pane layouts similar to desktop mail readers and Usenet clients appeared well before 2002. For example, if you look at the history of feedreader.com, there is a screenshot of a 3 pane layout on the front page archived in 2001: https://archive.ph/U9ZAo
tecoholic•2h ago
What’s happening in this site? The page loads and number starts going up from 47 and the it says “You fell behind reading this”. And I start scrolling and paras of text start floating up. I am really confused
Onavo•2h ago
I think it's supposed to simulate the RSS inbox count creating urgency.
embedding-shape•23m ago
Hm, that was really unclear, I felt like there was a timer timing my reading, so I ended up closing it :/
rolymath•2h ago
Oh boy. You fell behind a lot. Everyone was waiting for you to read that page.
stabbles•1h ago
Try this: https://www.terrygodier.com/phantom-obligation/ascii
AndrewDucker•1h ago
Did you try reading the text?
voidUpdate•59m ago
When I load the page, all the text I can see is "You fell behind while reading this". Not exactly helpful
trashb•1h ago
This is "modern web design", I personally prefer a more minimal style.

If you turn on your browser's "reader mode" the article is more readable.

azornathogron•1h ago
If you scroll down slightly you get a low contrast button "○ PREFER STILLNESS? READ AS PLAIN TEXT →", which takes you to a plain text version with a rather patronising introduction that says "You chose the quiet version. No animations. No counters ticking up. Just words. That's a valid choice."

Edit: to be just slightly nicer about it: having a plain text version is great, that's a really good thing. But the "that's a valid choice" paragraph is unnecessary and just distracts from your actual article. If I pick the plain-text version it's because I want to just get straight to the point (other people may have other reasons), and I certainly don't need your validation.

nusl•36m ago
Sounds like what an LLM would tell me
RandomTeaParty•35m ago
I totally missed that button... It using tiny font size doesn't help
sublinear•1h ago
> PHANTOM OBLIGATION

I thought we stopped making up new ways to feel like a victim. This is so dramatic about something nobody sane feels about their RSS feeds or even work emails.

If it's really that important, I have inbox rules and can be reached directly.

I like knowing what I've already read in my RSS feed and find it way more useful than the read status on emails. Emails may need to be referenced later, archived, or forwarded. Whether I read it isn't that relevant. I am a heavy user of "mark all as read" like it's a trip odometer reset button. I don't care that way about my RSS feeds because I'm reading them for leisure. The read status there is like a bookmark and I ignore counts.

I don't feel like I'm missing out for the same reason as email. If it's important I will eventually read it more than once by some other means.

> Every interface is an argument about how you should feel

If it is, it's not very effective on me. To me every interface is roughly equivalent in not having enough information these days. The design details are very quickly ignored once I learn how to get what I want. All the alternative layout examples shown are less informative so I hate them even more than the "email" layout.

OJFord•1h ago
Yes! This is exactly why I gave up on my RSS feeds. I was paying for the client even ('Feedbin', iirc).

I trimmed the feeds way down, and now just receive a couple literally by email. Doesn't fix the feeling, but merges it with the rest of my email so it's just the one inbox's unread count.

If I were designing the interface, I think I'd do it like a book or magazine - except indefinite length. Each feed is a different book, new entries get tacked on the back. No unread count, maybe a sort of bookmark shows how far 'through' you are, but there's no particular expectation to finish, since you never will for as long as the feed's active anyway.

yuppiepuppie•1h ago
Interesting. I use Feeeed and find the feeds easy to navigate and consume. It’s not overbearing and sufficiently customizable.
AndrewDucker•1h ago
If I subscribe to an RSS feed it's because I'm interested in the content. I might appreciate better ways of filtering, but I still want to see all of the items in the feeds.
aebtebeten•1h ago
I do the opposite (eg, I read HN via RSS), and definitely don't want to see all of the content.

My reader (newsboat) is good at showing items at-most-once, and (at least the way I use it) punts to a browser to display content on the rare occasions I have further interest. Does this count as sufficiently-non-email-clienty for TFA's purposes?

touwer•1h ago
This email like tree system was even copied to the small screens of mobile apps. That's one of the main reasons why we built Fiper.net
pjerem•1h ago
Interesting read.

Actually I also think that email mailbox interfaces are shitty in general, including for emails.

For me, IM apps solved the problem correctly : one thread per contact. The thread goes up when something new happens. You can easily block contacts.

My mailbox sorted by date is a total mess. Having everything grouped by sender email would automatically make it tidy.

TurboSkyline•33m ago
> The thread goes up when something new happens.

But that's what sorted by date means, right? When you get a new mail, it goes at the top of the mailbox, and after new ones arrive, it goes down.

My mailbox sorted by date is a total mess. Having everything grouped by sender email would automatically make it tidy.

That works for single-sender mails, but most of my work mails have almost a different sent of contacts per topic. Grouping mails by subject (topic) makes this more manageable.

In all mail clients I've used, you're 1 or 2 clicks away from seeing your unread messages only, which greatly helps with filtering what's important to read soon.

PunchyHamster•30m ago
It's interesting idea but a lot of mail "contact" is either rare but still important, or one off thing that you read and/or remove/spam.

Funnily enough in old school mail client you could trivally make directory per contact via sieve filter but mainstream mail clients don't really want to give users much power.

kkfx•59m ago
Well... We read text. We need UIs to manage the text flow/visible parts. Many websites could be read much better with Firefox Reader for similar reasons. Gnus (Emacs) concentrate news, feeds and mail in a single UI because of this, I concentrate most of my information in org-mode notes for similar reasons.

The real issue is explain to the masses that what we know is there for a mix of rational and legacy stuff mimicking we should slice. And that's a very hard issue.

voidUpdate•58m ago
As I was scrolling, I paused halfway along the quote blocks, and just saw a blinking "typing" indicator seemingly stuck. Gave the impression it was being LLM-generated on the fly or something, and waiting for new tokens
imtringued•57m ago
I didn't read the full blog post but back when I was still using RSS I tried a bunch of RSS readers and they all had the same problem. They were "algorithmic" in the style of Youtube or Twitter instead of the email client UI that this blog post is complaining about.

I used RSS for exactly one thing: to follow releases of content that I didn't want to miss out on. For anything else HN, Youtube, or even just googling is good enough.

elcapitan•51m ago
I don't really mind the email interface that much, my main issue is that most RSS clients have it exclusively, without any second level of automatic filtering/sorting/triage. For many feeds that I subscribe, I'm only interested in portions of it, or I would want to filter out some topics, etc. So I have to manually go through heaps of stuff that only mildly interest me or often not at all, to find the few things I wanted when I originally encountered the blog.
nusl•35m ago
That top message sorta put me off. Perhaps that's the intended purpose.

"82 You fell behind while reading this."

Okay, goodbye.

PunchyHamster•33m ago
I think the author's problem is treating email as chat.

The described problem doesn't exist for people that use email as email.

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