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Netbird a German Tailscale alternative (P2P WireGuard-based overlay network)

https://netbird.io/
160•l1am0•2h ago

Comments

oaiey•1h ago
Sweet. Alternatives are always something good.
lwde•1h ago
But it's missing a tailscale funnel like feature, right? That's one of the main features that I use for some home assistant instances.
Galanwe•1h ago
Agree, I use funnels and serves a lot as well. Very useful for homelabers.
ethangk•1h ago
Out of curiosity, why? I use TS for all my homelab bits (including my HA instance), but connect to TS before opening the HA app. Is it just a case of making it easier/ possible to connect if you’re on another VPN? Are you not concerned with having something from your local network open to the internet?
Galanwe•1h ago
I use funnels for things like Vaultwarden, that are secure enough to be exposed on internet, and would be cumbersome if behind the tailnet.

I use serve for everything else, just for the clean SSL termination for things that should stay within the telnet, like *arr stacks, immich, etc.

ethangk•59m ago
Ah neat, that makes sense. Thanks.

Do you have anything that’ll trigger a notification if there’s suspicious traffic on your local network? I may be overly paranoid about exposing things on my local network to the internet.

Galanwe•46m ago
Not really, but these stuff are in an isolated DMZ vlan, so theres not much to escalate to.

I fancy a bit upgrading to a smarter router like unify's with integrated firewall and stuff like like though.

edentrey•46m ago
After a decade with KeePass, I’ve finally moved to Vaultwarden. I’ll admit, self-hosting such a critical service still feels a bit scary, but the seamless syncing across all my devices is a huge upgrade. To balance the risk, I keep it tucked safely behind Tailscale for that extra peace of mind.
thenaturalist•1h ago
Besides the solid product, Misha & Maycon are just great and friendly people to work with.
braginini•23m ago
love it! :)
estsauver•1h ago
There's also https://pangolin.net/ which is kind of similar, and I believe a YC company.
OtomotO•56m ago
Does that have ties to the US? If so it's not playing in the same ballpark.

US citizens may not be aware, but due to POTUS "made and maintained in Europe" is becoming more and more important to EU.

edentrey•44m ago
I see Pangolin has a Self-Host Community Edition, doesn't that already give something over digital sovereignity for EU users? I am considering both for a migration from Tailscale, any suggestion on their differences?
braginini•24m ago
Not quite similar tho. Pangolin is a reverse proxy, NetBird is p2p mesh for internal resources remote access
Benedicht•59m ago
Using it self hosted for almost a year now, no issues, just works for me.
braginini•23m ago
That is awesome!
FloatArtifact•54m ago
If the VPN connection would stay connected despite having it set up that way in the web UI.. It would be a good product.

Still haven't figured out how to do Termux on Android with netbird ssh yet.

edentrey•49m ago
can you please elaborate on this? I use termux on android with tailscale and it works flawless, is it not possible on Netbird?
edentrey•51m ago
Tailscale is the only non-self-hosted part of my setup now and this has bugged me since. I use a custom Nameserver rule to point all my subdomains to a Caddy container sitting on my Tailnet. Caddy handles the SSL and routes everything to the right containers. I skipped Tailscale Funnel on purpose; since these are just family services, I’d rather keep them locked behind the VPN than open them up to the web. This project looks promising as a replacement for my current setup and for its digital sovereignity of self hosting the server. I'm looking to manage several embedded devices remotely via Tailscale, but I've hit a major roadblock: the 90-day maximum expiration for Auth Keys. Constantly renewing these tokens is a significant maintenance burden, so I'm searching for a more permanent, 'set-and-forget' solution for my remote hardware.
tass•44m ago
Tailscale allows you to disable the expiration time - I do this for my gateways.

My other simplifier is having everything at home get a .home dns name, and telling Tailscale to route all these via tailnet.

edentrey•38m ago
can you please tell me how to disable expiration time? I see auth keys have an Expiration which says it "Must be between 1 and 90 days." I do use a custom domain name as well with a Nameservers rule to have all my services reachable as subdomains of my custom domain.
aidos•20m ago
You can create an oauth client that can generate keys as you need them.

https://tailscale.com/kb/1215/oauth-clients#generating-long-...

matthewmacleod•8m ago
There is some confusion here because while you can disable node key expiration, you can’t disable auth key expiration. But that’s less of a problem than it seems - auth keys are only useful for adding new nodes, so long expiry times are probably not necessary outside of some specific use-cases.

Edit: in fact from your original post it sounds like you’re trying to avoid re-issuing auth keys to embedded devices. You don’t need to do this; auth keys should ideally be single-use and are only required to add the node to the network. Once the device is registered, it does not need them any more - there is a per-device key. You can then choose to disable key expiration for that device.

tecleandor•40m ago
You can manually disable key expiration for hosts in Tailscale, and I think you can do it with tags too...

https://tailscale.com/kb/1028/key-expiry#disabling-key-expir...

katdork•27m ago
The word "auth keys" meant nothing to you, I guess: https://tailscale.com/kb/1085/auth-keys
matthewmacleod•9m ago
What would be your use-case for auth keys with long expiry times? Auth keys are only required for registering new nodes.
atmosx•31m ago
Headscale is a self hosted drop-in control plane replacement that has been pretty stable for us.
hollow-moe•44m ago
I'm currently comparing it with pangolin and headscale for my small scale company infrastructure access. Been running headscale for my own setup for a while but maybe netbird or pangolin might be better for real production.
edentrey•42m ago
I am in the same position but currently using Tailscale and realize how important and critical it has become for my whole family infrastructure. A self-hosted solution which allowed me to use Nameservers and TLS termination as I currently do would be awesome.
vlovich123•44m ago
How does this compare with Defguard? Also European but seems more featureful maybe?
braginini•15m ago
Defguard as of my knowledge is a traditional VPN with a central gateway. NetBird is an overlay network with a full mesh capabilities. Though you can set it up in a gateway-like style with NetBird Networks but without opening ports and with HA out of the box: https://docs.netbird.io/manage/networks
BoredPositron•42m ago
Missing some technical bits to be a true contender for me but I bet they are getting there. That said I've seen so many shadcn based scam sites that my brain starts associating shadcn with scams.
braginini•23m ago
For example? Curious what is missing
BoredPositron•1m ago
It funnels and lets encrypt certs for me.
RedShift1•40m ago
I'm really missing something like Cisco DMVPN. A VPN mesh between different routers where all routers have a connection to each other, so that all traffic doesn't have to pass through the hub. And that runs on a router, because all these solutions only run on a regular computer with a complete OS.
rwky•29m ago
Check https://tinc-vpn.org/ it may run on your router if you're running openwrt or similar
aaronds•21m ago
A bit lower level than most things discussed here but on the topic of overlay networks, I’ve used nebula for years and can recommend it

https://github.com/slackhq/nebula

braginini•17m ago
https://github.com/netbirdio/netbird
no_time•14m ago
F-droid inclusion seems to be stalled https://gitlab.com/fdroid/rfp/-/issues/2688

Having it in F-droid, vetted by their policies is kind of my benchmark for "software that is guaranteed to be not crapware."

That being said I'm rooting for the devs, having an alternative for tailscale+headscale would be nice, because as it stands it's kind of dependant on the goodwill of a for profit company (finite).

speedgoose•1m ago
I replaced Teleport by a bunch of various tools, and I had to chose between tailscale/headscale and netbird for the network connectivity. I’m pleased with netbird so far.

I had some weird bugs on a few old servers during the transition, and the support was helpful even though I am a small customer. We eventually switched to user space wireguard on those servers.

Netbird a German Tailscale alternative (P2P WireGuard-based overlay network)

https://netbird.io/
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