It would be interesting to hear their contingency plan for any kind of disaster (most commonly a fire) that hits their data center.

This is a great solution for a very specific type of team but I think most companies with consistent GPU workloads will still just rent dedicated servers and call it a day.

I used to colocate a 2U server that I purchased with a local data center. It was a great learning experience for me. Im curious why a company wouldn't colocate their own hardware? Proximity isnt an issue when you can have the datacenter perform physical tasks. Bravo to the comma team regardless. It'll be a great learning experience and make each person on their team better.

Ps... bx cable instead of conduit for electrical looks cringe.

15-years ago or so a spreadsheet was floating around where you could enter server costs, compute power, etc and it would tell you when you would break-even by buying instead of going with AWS. I think it was leaked from Amazon because it was always three-years to break-even even as hardware changed over time.

Datacenters need cool dry air? <45%

No, low isn't good perse. I worked in a datacenter which in winters had less than 40%, ram was failing all over the place. Low humidity causes static electricity.

In case anyone from comma.ai reads this: "CTO @ comma.ai" the link at the end is broken, it’s relative instead of absolute.

The reason companies don’t go with on premises even if cloud is way more expensive is because of the risk involved in on premises.

You can see it quite clearly here that there’s so many steps to take. Now a good company would concentrate risk on their differentiating factor or the specific part they have competitive advantage in.

It’s never about “is the expected cost in on premises less than cloud”, it’s about the risk adjusted costs.

Once you’ve spread risk not only on your main product but also on your infrastructure, it becomes hard.

I would be vary of a smallish company building their own Jira in house in a similar way.

> Cloud companies generally make onboarding very easy, and offboarding very difficult.

I reckon most on-prem deployments have significantly worse offboarding than the cloud providers. As a cloud provider you can win business by having something for offboarding, but internally you'd never get buy-in to spend on a backup plan if you decide to move to the cloud.

I like Hotz’s style: simply and straightforwardly attempting the difficult and complex. I always get the impression: “You don’t need to be too fancy or clever. You don’t need permission or credentials. You just need to go out and do the thing. What are you waiting for?”

At scale (like comma.ai), it's probably cheaper. But until then it's a long term cost optimization with really high upfront capital expenditure and risk. Which means it doesn't make much sense for the majority of startup companies until they become late stage and their hosting cost actually becomes a big cost burden.

There are in between solutions. Renting bare metal instead of renting virtual machines can be quite nice. I've done that via Hetzner some years ago. You pay just about the same but you get a lot more performance for the same money. This is great if you actually need that performance.

People obsess about hardware but there's also the software side to consider. For smaller companies, operations/devops people are usually more expensive than the resources they manage. The cost to optimize is that cost. The hosting cost usually is a rounding error on the staffing cost. And on top of that the amount of responsibilities increases as soon as you own the hardware. You need to service it, monitor it, replace it when it fails, make sure those fans don't get jammed by dust puppies, deal with outages when they happen, etc. All the stuff that you pay cloud providers to do for you now becomes your problem. And it has a non zero cost.

The right mindset for hosting cost is to think of it in FTEs (full time employee cost for a year). If it's below 1 (most startups until they are well into scale up territory), you are doing great. Most of the optimizations you are going to get are going to cost you in actual FTEs spent doing that work. 1 FTE pays for quite a bit of hosting. Think 10K per month in AWS cost. A good ops person/developer is more expensive than that. My company runs at about 1K per month (GCP and misc managed services). It would be the wrong thing to optimize for us. It's not worth spending any amount of time on for me. I literally have more valuable things to do.

This flips when you start getting into the multiple FTEs per month in cost for just the hosting. At that point you probably have additional cost measured in 5-10 FTE in staffing anyway to babysit all of that. So now you can talk about trading off some hosting FTEs for modest amount of extra staffing FTEs and make net gains.

There's the HN I know and love

This was one of the coolest job ads that I've ever read :). Congrats for what you have done with your infrastructure, team and product!

Well, their comment section is fore sure not running on premises, but on the cloud:

"An error occurred: API rate limit already exceeded for installation ID 73591946."

I’m impressed that San Diego electrical power manages to be even more expensive than in the UK. That takes some doing.

I just read about Railway doing something similar, sadly their prices are still high compared to other bare metal providers and even VPS such as Hetzner with Dokploy, very similar feature set yet for the same 5 dollars you get way more CPU, storage and RAM.

https://blog.railway.com/p/launch-week-02-welcome

I would suggest to use both on-premise hardware and cloud computing. Which is probably what comma is doing.

For critical infrastructure, I would rather pay a competent cloud provider than being responsible for reliability issues. Maintaining one server room in the headquarters is something, but two servers rooms in different locations, with resilient power and network is a bit too much effort IMHO.

For running many slurm jobs on good servers, cloud computing is very expensive and you sometimes save money in a matter of months. And who cares if the server room is a total loss after a while, worst case you write some more YAML and Terraform and deploy a temporary replacement in the cloud.

Another thing between is colocation, where you put hardware you own in a managed data center. It’s a bit old fashioned, but it may make sense in some cases.

I can also mention that research HPCs may be worth considering. In research, we have some of the world fastest computers at a fraction of the cost of cloud computing. It’s great as long as you don’t mind not being root and having to use slurm.

I don’t know in USA, but in Norway you can run your private company slurm AI workloads on research HPCs, though you will pay quite a bit more than universities and research institutions. But you can also have research projects together with universities or research institutions, and everyone will be happy if your business benefits a lot from the collaboration.

Not long ago Railway moved from GCP to their own infrastructure since it was very expensive for them. [0] Some go for a Oxide rack [1] for a full stack solution (both hardware and software) for intense GPU workloads, instead of building it themselves.

It's very expensive and only makes sense if you really need infrastructure sovereignty. It makes more sense if you're profitable in the tens of millions after raising hundreds of millions.

It also makes sense for governments (including those in the EU) which should think about this and have the compute in house and disconnected from the internet if they are serious about infrastructure sovereignty, rather than depending on US-based providers such as AWS.

[0] https://blog.railway.com/p/data-center-build-part-one

[1] https://oxide.computer/

Am I the only one that is simply scared of running your own cloud? What happens if your administrator credentials get leaked? At least with Azure I can phone microsoft and initiate a recovery. Because of backups and soft deletion policies quite a lot is possible. I guess you can build in these failsafe scenarios locally too? But what if a fire happens like in South Korea? Sure most companies run more immediate risks such as going bankrupt, but at least Cloud relieves me from the stuff of nightmares.

Except now I have nightmares that the USA will enforce the patriot act and force Microsoft to hand over all their data in European data centers and then we have to migrate everything to a local cloud provider. Argh...