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Chess engines do weird stuff

https://girl.surgery/chess
64•admiringly•1h ago
Related: https://cosmo.tardis.ac/files/2026-02-12-az-rl-and-spsa.html

Comments

GaggiX•1h ago
https://cosmo.tardis.ac/files/2026-02-12-az-rl-and-spsa.html

Response from the author of Viridithas, there is a link to this engine in her webpage.

dang•1h ago
Thanks! I've put that link in the toptext as well.
incognito124•1h ago
Please be careful when visiting the homepage
WesolyKubeczek•54m ago
It gave me serious vibes of the old internet homepages of highly eccentric people that became a part of the internet folklore, whether in a good way or a bad way.

The video is probably the least bizarre thing there, if that's what you are warning about.

uncivilized•46m ago
What were you browsing where someone cutting off their own testicles is not as bizarre as other things? I didn't watch the video but atleast there was a warning.

Feds this guy right here ^^

pavel_lishin•40m ago
> What were you browsing where someone cutting off their own testicles is not as bizarre as other things?

One of my formative early internet experiences was loading up a video of a man being beheaded with a knife.

Luckily, I realized what was about to happen, and didn't subject myself to the whole thing.

pavel_lishin•43m ago
This really reminds me of the web as I remember it from the mid-to-late 90's; I feel like I'm just a click away from the old deoxy.org, if anyone remembers that. (Don't go there now; the domain appears to have been long-ago hijacked.)
incognito124•36m ago
or kittens on encyclopediabrittanica
NooneAtAll3•7m ago
as always, genius and insanity are only 1 step apart
RivieraKid•1h ago
AFAIK chess is has been "solved" for a few years in the sense that Stockfish running on modern laptop with 1 minute per move is unbeatable from the starting position.
altruios•58m ago
Even by a stockfish running on a modern laptop with 2 minutes per move (provided they are going second)?!
RivieraKid•29m ago
Yes, that's what "unbeatable from the starting position" means.
helloplanets•41m ago
This is not true. Stockfish is not unbeatable by another engine, or another copy of Stockfish.

Chess engines have been impossible for humans to beat for well over a decade.

But a position in chess being solved is a specific thing, which is still very far from having happened for the starting position. Chess has been solved up to 7 pieces. Solving basically amounts to some absolutely massive tables that have every variation accounted for, so that you know whether a given position will end in a draw, black win or white win. (https://syzygy-tables.info)

RivieraKid•31m ago
Do you have a source? I remember asking on the Stockfish Discord and being told that Stockfish on a modern laptop with 1 min per move will never lose against Stockfish with 1000 min per move from the starting position.

But I'm not sure whether that guy was guessing or confident about that claim.

MengerSponge•20m ago
That just means that Stockfish doesn't get stronger with more than 1 minute per move on a modern computer. It doesn't say anything about other engines.
RivieraKid•6m ago
Stockfish with 1000 minutes per move is an approximation of a perfect chess player. So if Stockfish with 1 minute per move will never lose against a perfect player, it is unbeatable by any chess engine.
helloplanets•7m ago
There's the TCEC [0] which is a big thing in some circles. Stockfish does lose every now and then against top engines. [1] Usually it's two different engines playing against one another, though. Like Leela Chess Zero [2] vs. Stockfish.

In that hypothetical of running 2 instances of Stockfish against one another on a modern laptop, with the key difference being minutes of compute time, it'd probably be very close to 100% of draws. Depending on how many games you run. So, if you run a million games, there's probably some outliers. If you run a hundred, maybe not.

When it comes to actually solved positions, the 7-piece tables take around 1TB of RAM to even run. These tablebases are used by Stockfish when you actually want to run it at peak strength. [3]

[0]: https://tcec-chess.com [1]: https://lichess.org/broadcast/tcec-s28-leagues--superfinal/m... [2]: https://lczero.org [3]: https://github.com/syzygy1/tb

NooneAtAll3•5m ago
doesn't TCEC use opening book?

I remember hearing that starting position is so draw-ish that it's not practical anymore

LeifCarrotson•4m ago
The parent is using a different definition, so they put "solved" in quotes. What word would you suggest to describe the situation where the starting position with 32 pieces always ends in either a draw or win for white, regardless of the compute and creativity available to black?

I haven't verified OP's claim attributed to 'someone on the Stockfish discord', but if true, that's fascinating. There would be nothing left for the engine developers to do but improve efficiency and perhaps increase the win-to-draw ratio.

bee_rider•7m ago
“Solved” is a term of art. Defining it in some other way is not really wrong (since it is a definition) but it seems… unnecessary.
mpolson64•41m ago
I'm no expert on chess engine development, but it's surprising to me that both lc0 and stockfish use SPSA for "tuning" the miscellaneous magic numbers which appear in the system rather than different black box optimization algorithms like Bayesian optimization or evolutionary algorithms. As far as I am aware both of these approaches are used more often for similar tasks in non-chess applications (ex. hyperparameter optimization in ML training) and have much more active research communities compared to SPSA.

Is there something special about these chess engines that makes SPSA more desirable for these use cases specifically? My intuition is that something like Bayesian optimization could yield stronger optimization results, and that the computational overhead of doing BO would be minimal compared to the time it takes to train and evaluate the models.

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