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Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iranian-students-protest-as-anger-grows-89a6a44e
52•JumpCrisscross•2h ago

Comments

redwood•1h ago
Brave heroes.
alephnerd•1h ago
FYI - in Persianate Islam (Shia and Sunni), the 40th day of mourning is extremely important, which is called Arbaeen, Chehelom, Chawlisan, or Qirq depending on the region. This is when mourners will conduct a procession.

It has been roughly 40 days since the massacres began, and something similar happened in 1979 during the revolution, which was largely sparked during the mourning period (chehelom) for the Qom Massacre.

The cynic in me feels that this must have been recognized by policymakers given how critical the motif of martyrdom is in Persianate culture as Ali Shariati, Ahmed Fardid, and Jalal Al-e-Ahmad - the three pillars of modern Iranian philosophy and culture, as well as the Shia undertones of the 1979 Revolution - have elucidated.

Edit: can't reply

> This just shows how bad the situation for our philosophy and culture have become in the last century...

Yep.

I don't agree with their beliefs, but you cannot decouple a large portion of modern Iran from Shariati/Fardid/Al-e-Ahmad's motifs, which themselves are largely derived from Iqbal and Heidegger.

JumpCrisscross•1h ago
Is there a good book on “the three pillars of modern Iranian philosophy” that could serve as an overview to someone unfamiliar?
alephnerd•1h ago
The main primary sources I'd say are:

1. "Occidentosis: A Plague from the West" by Jalal Al-e-Ahmad

2. "Red Shi'ism vs. Black Shi'ism" by Ali Shariati

3. "Martyrdom: Arise and Bear Witness" by Ali Shariati

4. "The Purification of the Soul" by Ahmed Fardid

Most modern Iranian Shia philosophy is largely a synthesis of Heiddiger and Muhammad Iqbal ("Saare Jahan Se Aacha, Hindustan Humara"), as these Iranian philosophers were largely from Khorasan and Dari speaking so most were acquaintances with Iqbal, who popularized Heiddiger's thought across Persianate society.

Basically, if you synthesize Heidigger's concept of authenticity with the Persianate motif of martyrdom with a dose of Persianate chauvinism and Shia theology, you have what became Khomeinism.

It's basically Maoism but with the Marxist-Leninist and Confucian undertones replaced with Shia and Persianate undertones.

I also can't help but notice how both Mao/Li/Chen and Shariati/Fardid/Al-e-Ahmad were all members of the rural elite who faced dislocation when immigrating to urban society in the early 20th century.

Edit: can't reply

> Are there specific translations you’d call out

We had English translations published by the Iranian government at Widener Library [0]. There might be similar ones online. Idk, I don't want to get on a list.

> Wait, is this Farsi? I think I can parse it with my rough knowledge of Hindi

Muhammad Iqbal was both an Indian freedom fighter, the creator of the Pakistan movement, and one of the first modern Persianate scholars.

Back during that era, most Persian scholarship was centered amongst the South Asian community. Additionally, educated Koshur and Paharis (irrespective of religion) from that era were heavily Persianate in outlook (eg. Even Koshur Hindus back then would consider studying a BA Persian as an alternative to a BA Sanskrit).

As such, Iqbal's works were very common amongst the madrassa-turned-western educated Iranian intelligentsia of the early 20th century.

[0] - https://library.harvard.edu/collections/middle-eastern-colle...

JumpCrisscross•51m ago
Are these texts accessible to someone without a lot of context for Persian culture? (Are there specific translations you’d call out?)

> Saare Jahan Se Aacha, Hindustan Humara

Wait, is this Farsi? I think I can parse it with my rough knowledge of Hindi.

yolkedgeek•1h ago
> Ali Shariati, Ahmed Fardid, and Jalal Al-e-Ahmad - the three pillars of modern Iranian philosophy and culture

This just shows how bad the situation for our philosophy and culture have become in the last century...

I really wouldn't call these charlatans "pillars of modern Iranian philosophy and culture"

browie•32m ago
That's just an opinion, not an argument. It adds nothing valuable to this discussion. If you want to criticize, can you point to specific things and explain your reasoning? It might be useful, to make an actual point. Or whatever.
thunderbong•1h ago
https://archive.ph/P3QFa
Herring•1h ago
Good luck to them. None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well. 0/6
mmasu•59m ago
maybe the fact that Persians != Arabs will improve their odds. Recent uprisings had more luck (i.e. Bangladesh), even if it’s too early to fully assess their success
nickff•58m ago
The status quo in Iran isn’t going well either; the economy is terrible and getting worse, and the government is slaughtering its own citizens.
throwaway27448•56m ago
> the economy is terrible and getting worse

we could always stop punishing the people of Iran for their government...

nickff•47m ago
And the government could stop murdering people.
regularization•20m ago
Right, a clearer way of saying this, as you do, is the West imposed crippling sanctions just prior to all of this, as Trump sends aircraft carriers to the Gulf.
ukblewis•5m ago
Right and we could allow that government to continue to murder tens of thousands of it’s innocent civilians, build proxy armies that are larger than all the armies of Europe to kill all the Jews, to murder all of their minorities and anyone that remotely scares them while they build nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles that they could use to murder Americans in the east coast, I mean they so scream “Death to America!” at all of their pro Islamic regime rallies … Or was that not what you meant?
JumpCrisscross•49m ago
> None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well

None of the Arab-Spring populations had democratic rule since, arguably, Carthage. Iran is different [1].

More importantly, Iran was recently a secular society. It has memory of education and freedom. Many Arab countries have been fundamentalist for their entire modern eras.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_classical_Iran

regularization•13m ago
Iran had a parliament until they wanted Iran to control its own oil, whence the US and UK overthrew Mossadegh. They had ayatollah Borujerdi wreck the democracy. Also Kashani who helped oust Mossadegh, and then later supported Khomeini.

The US recently worked to oust the secular leader of Syria to replace him with an ISIS leader. Actually al-Sharaa was on the US wanted terrorist list, only removed three months ago. Many such stories.

logicchains•17m ago
The Tunisian revolution was a success.
blell•44m ago
This article glows.
mcny•39m ago
> At Amirkabir University of Technology in Tehran, students dressed in black shouted “Long Live the Shah,” a reference to Reza Pahlavi, the exiled son of Iran’s last monarch, who has emerged as a leader of the recent protests.

This is unfortunate and gives the regime a chance to say "see, these people are puppets of the monarchy".

I feel like the people who want a monarchy installed are trying to fish in troubled waters.

ukblewis•10m ago
Eff off. Butt out. Until you’re facing down the barrel of a gun hopeful after more than 40 years (longer than I have been alive), don’t judge others. And to actually argue your substance: On the one side people argue that Iranians will potentially be left with a dangerous power vacuum when the regime is overthrown, on the other side people (like you) argue that Iranians shouldn’t support Reza Pahlavi, who has explicitly said on numerous occasions that he doesn’t want to rule as king, but rather to facilitate a democratic transition and to allow the people to choose who they want to rule, simply because supporting him means that they are now “monarchists”. You are aware that Britain is a monarchy? Or is your small brain not capable of understanding that a monarchy can be a democratic monarchy?

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