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Some Things Just Take Time

https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2026/3/20/some-things-just-take-time/
88•vaylian•2h ago

Comments

vaylian•2h ago
Speed is useful, when you have a good idea or a hypothesis you want to test. But if you are running in the wrong direction, speed is of very little value. With LLMs it might be even harder to stop and realize that you are creating the wrong thing, because you are not spending effort to create the wrong thing.
binsquare•1h ago
I can relate to this, when time and effort of coding is a limiting factor it forces people to be more thoughtful about what to create.
allenu•6m ago
> But if you are running in the wrong direction, speed is of very little value.

I think of it differently. Speed is great because it means you can change direction very easily, and being wrong isn't as costly. As long as you're tracking where you're going, if you end up in the wrong place, but you got there quickly and noticed it, you can quickly move in a different direction to get to the right place.

Sometimes we take time mostly because it's expensive to be wrong. If being wrong doesn't cost anything, going fast and being wrong a lot may actually be better as it lets you explore lots of options. For this strategy to work, however, you need good judgment to recognize when you've reached a wrong position.

rkwtr1299•1h ago
And yet https://earendil.com/purpose/ is dabbling in AI and many posts by Ronacher are low key promoting AI.

He is contributing to the madness.

luxurytent•1h ago
I think he's learning how to effectively use the tools we now have and is sharing his experience in a thoughtful way. Madness is a stretch
the_mitsuhiko•1h ago
I admit that it’s a conflict and I don’t know if I have the right answers. I cannot help but see the good and bad in these things. Rejecting it outright is unlikely to help.
Swizec•1h ago
> everybody who is like me, fully onboarded into AI and agentic tools, seemingly has less and less time available because we fall into a trap where we’re immediately filling it with more things

You fill a jar with sand and there is no space for big rocks.

But if you fill the jar with big rocks, there is plenty of space for sand. Remove one of the rocks and the sand instantly fills that void.

Make sure you fit the rocks first.

big-chungus4•1h ago
You fill the bottle with water, you put a fish in it, you remove half of the water, the bottle is still half full, but if you remove the fish, it will have less water than before.

You fill the bottle with half of the water, you put the fish in, you can fill in the other half. If you start with the first half, you will end up with more water.

auggierose•28m ago
What?
ghurtado•19m ago
Psilocybin?

Not sure, I used to be better at diagnosing this type of episode.

NikolaNovak•16m ago
I assume post used extreme example to demonstrate that wise-sounding metaphors may not have inherent point or value.
satvikpendem•7m ago
They're talking about Archimedes' principle, displacement of water. The fish makes the water bottle overflow, so be careful when you add the fish so that it doesn't. It's a counter analogy to the rocks one above.
spencerflem•6m ago
They’re pointing out that if the jar was _filled_ with sand, then of course you can’t fit any rocks in because it’s full. It’s cute but misunderstands the original metaphor I think.
ghurtado•16m ago
In a more advanced civilisation, you would be put in the pillory for the townsfolk to throw rotten cabbage at you until the Lord fixed whatever made you say that.
jareklupinski•4m ago
you fill the 3 liter bottle up to the top, and pour the contents into the 5 liter bottle

then you fill 3 liter bottle again, and pour the contents into the 5 liter bottle until the 5 liter one is full

empty the 5 liter bottle, and pour the 1 liter in the 3 liter bottle into the 5 liter bottle

fill the 3 liter bottle again and pour that into the 1 liter already in the 5 liter bottle to get 4 liters of water

titanomachy•1h ago
> We pay premiums for Swiss watches, Hermès bags and old properties precisely because of the time embedded in them

Lost me in paragraph three. We pay for those things because they're recognizable status symbols, not because they took a long time to make. It took my grandmother a long time to knit the sweater I'm wearing, but its market value is probably close to zero.

simonw•55m ago
I would say that wearing a sweater knitted by one's grandmother is its own kind of status symbol. I'm more impressed by that (someone having a grandmother willing to invest that much effort in a gift for them) than someone spending $1000 on an item of clothing.

The fact that those items took a long time to make is part of what makes them status symbols though, because if you pay a lot of money for something that took no time to make at all (see most NFTs) you look like an idiot to a lot of people.

titanomachy•38m ago
I like the sweater, and some people like you might recognize it as special, but it doesn't have the universal cachet of a Rolex or something. It's also a bit chunky and funny-looking (but I guess so are some Rolexes).
ghurtado•8m ago
> status symbol.

This sort of thing was done at a time when everybody did it, and now that it's not done, nobody does it

No kid ever said "did you see the sweater that Timmy's grandma knitted for him? That kid is so cool! "

Mostly because they all had grams sweaters as well.

I don't know what term you were looking for, but a handmade present for someone dear is about the furthest thing from a "status symbol" that I can think of:

- it can't be bought

- it can't be transferred without losing almost all value (ie: it's only valuable to you, or at most your family, eBay doesn't want it)

- it provides no improvement whatsoever in one's social standing

simonw•4m ago
I don't care about the opinion of kids.

I'm also completely unimpressed by someone wearing a Rolex though - if anything it makes me question their values - so different mileage for different people.

agumonkey•47m ago
Maybe the analogy was wrong but more and more, I believe that some of a value was implicitly about how many organs/industries did it touch.
satvikpendem•4m ago
Yes, Veblen goods, and there are examples of cloning Hermès bags for example (still by hand) where they're much cheaper yet took the same amount of time to create.

https://youtu.be/02CjWIkTy-M

andyhedges•1h ago
> We require age minimums for driving, voting, and drinking because we believe maturity only comes through lived experience.

Not true, we do this because the 99% of the time it's true, however there are people who would be perfectly competent and responsible to drive without living to the age of 16-18. Same with voting, there are humans who have a deep understanding and intelligence about politics at a younger age than suffrage. Equally there are people who will be reckless drivers at 40 and vote on whim at 60.

We have these rules not because sophistication only comes through lived experience, we have them because it's strongly correlated and covers of most error cases.

To take this to AI, run the model enough times with a higher enough temperature, then perhaps it can solve your challenges with a high enough quality - just a thought.

abnry•1h ago
The guiding analogy of the piece is that of planting a tree and waiting for it to mature.

The reason we need to wait is that it takes time for some things to mature.

andyhedges•58m ago
Yes, I'm saying it's not a good analogy
dminor•1h ago
On the contrary, you can solve the tree problem with money. There are nurseries that sell mature trees -- most people though will not choose to spend $20k on a tree.
hshsiejensjsj•33m ago
This is nitpicking his point.

But anyhow, you can buy large-ish burlapped trees but they aren’t as healthy, often die, and nothing close to a 100+ yr old estate oak tree or a decades old rose garden. You just can’t make it faster, transplanting plants that old will kill them.

dminor•22m ago
You're moving the goalposts on his poor analogy :)

Most of the trees do just fine, and these nurseries will typically provide a warranty.

QuadrupleA•58m ago
> everybody who is like me, fully onboarded into AI and agentic tools, seemingly has less and less time available because we fall into a trap where we’re immediately filling it with more things

I do wonder if productivity with AI coding has really gone up, or if it just gives the illusion of that, and we take on more projects and burn ourselves out?

agumonkey•50m ago
A blend of both. You do create more, but the goalposts are always one more step away.

ps: it's strange that YouTubers are talking about the same thing. People in different dev circles. Agentic feels like doom ide scroll.

irishcoffee•44m ago
Sounds similar to a slot machine. How odd…
ErroneousBosh•30m ago
> I do wonder if productivity with AI coding has really gone up, or if it just gives the illusion of that, and we take on more projects and burn ourselves out?

It definitely hasn't for me. I spent about an hour today trying to use AI to write something fairly simple and I'm still no further forward.

I don't understand what problem AI is supposed to solve in software development.

ghurtado•21m ago
> I don't understand what problem AI is supposed to solve in software development.

When Russians invaded Germany during WWII, some of them (who had never seen a toilet) thought that toilets were advanced potato washing machines, and were rightfully pissed when their potatoes were flushed away and didn't come back.

Sounds like you're feeling a similar frustration with your problem.

lawn•5m ago
Russians invading Ukraine had some, let's say interesting, reactions to modernities like toilets and washing machines
ghurtado•26m ago
> I do wonder if productivity with AI coding has really gone up

Here's the thing: we never had a remotely sane way to measure productivity of a software engineer for reasons that we all understand, and we don't have it now.

Even if we had it, it's not the sort of thing that management would even use: they decide how productive you are based on completely unrelated criteria, like willingness to work long hours and keeping your mouth shut when you disagree.

If you ask those types whether productivity has gone up with AI, they'll probably say something like "of course, we were able to let go a third of our programmers and nothing really seems to have changed"

"Productivity" became a poisoned word the moment that the suits realized what a useful weapon it was, and that it was impossible to challenge.

lapcat•42m ago
> I’m also increasingly skeptical of anyone who sells me something that supposedly saves my time.

Imagine a world in which the promise of AI was that workers could keep their jobs, at the same compensation as before, but work fewer hours and days per week due to increased productivity.

What could you do with those extra hours and days? Sleep better. Exercise more. Prepare healthy meals. Spend more time with family and friends. The benefits to physical and mental well-being are priceless. Even if you happened to earn extra money for the same amount of work, your time can be infinitely more valuable than money.

Unfortunately, that's not this world. Which is why the "increased productivity" promise doesn't seem to benefit workers at all.

If you look at the technological utopias that people imagined 50, 60+ years ago, they involved lives of leisure. If you would have told them that advances in technology would not reduce our working hours at all, maybe they would have started smashing the machines back then. Now we're supposed to be happy with more "stuff", even if there's no more time to enjoy stuff.

tbrownaw•29m ago
> We know this intuitively. We pay premiums for Swiss watches, Hermès bags and old properties precisely because of the time embedded in them. Either because of the time it took to build them or because of their age.

Oh, I thought it was because they're a way to show off about being rich.

> We require age minimums for driving, voting, and drinking because we believe maturity only comes through lived experience.

Even if she could reach the pedals, my 4yo doesn't have the attention span to drive. This isn't a "lived experience" thing, it's a physical brain development thing. IIRC the are effects with learning math, where starting earlier had limited impact on being able to move to certain more advanced topics earlier; ie there's more going on than just hours of experience.

The standard age for voting is also the age for being a legal adult. There are sound logical reasons that these ages should match.

The standard drinking age is due to pressure by activists, and AIUI is lower in other countries.

sodapopcan•18m ago
> Oh, I thought it was because they're a way to show off about being rich.

Maybe for some. I think these examples were carefully chosen. Hermès are made in France, "Swiss watch" doesn't automatically mean Rolex, though in that case Rolex does own most of their manufacturing (though there is a whole world of carefully made watches out there that don't cost 10K). As for old properties... there is a huge range there, but unless you are living in a castle, most people, at least my city, are likely silently thinking: "I'm so sorry for them that they have to live in that old house."

cdevries•8m ago
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