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LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/mar/24/laguardia-airplane-pilots-safety-concerns-crash
144•m_fayer•1h ago

Comments

notRobot•1h ago
There was a single traffic controller handling the entire airport. This was bound to happen and will keep happening unless things change. It's absurd that the US hasn't been able to fix its ATC shortage in like decades.

Currently over 41% of facilities are reliant on mandatory overtime, with controllers frequently working 60-hour weeks with only four days off per month.

FL410•1h ago
This. Go look at the atc subreddit, controllers have been begging for help for ages. This isn't one guy's fault.
adgjlsfhk1•1h ago
>This isn't one guy's fault.

Counterpoint. It's Regen's fault. He's the guy who decided that a high priority of the government was making sure air traffic controllers had no power to fight back against being horrifically overworked (because unions are evil you see)

voxic11•1h ago
Wasn't it Congress who passed 5 U.S.C. § 7311. which says a person may not “accept or hold” a federal job if they “participate in a strike” against the U.S. government.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/7311

originally passed as

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?edition=2023&num=0&req=g...

So arguably if Reagan had not fired them he would be failing to uphold the laws of the United States.

busterarm•1h ago
The issue is the shortage, which that doesn't address. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Was in three different unions. Union didn't do squat for me. Mainly kept my wages down and gave the friends of the union rep the best shifts.

anonymars•19m ago
Firing them all broke the pipeline

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47495739

jen20•1h ago
There have been six presidents who could have addressed this since Reagan. Every one of them shoulders some of the responsibility.
_ph_•1h ago
Yes, they should all have taken actions. But also, it is much more difficult to fix something broken once the damage has settled in. I guess none of them was willing to risk the disruption a fix would have caused. And the system seemed to have held up for quite a while. Weren't there some mass firings of ATC personal at the beginning of the Trump presidency?

The bottom line is: don't break things that are difficult or impossible to fix.

jen20•36m ago
The is a good idea, but once they are broken, you should at least try to fix them, or bear some of the blame for not having tried.
jordanb•52m ago
One thing people forget is that the key complaints PATCO's members had were:

  1. outdated equipment
  2. staffing levels
  3. workload and fatigue
Reagan went to war with the union instead of addressing these things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Professional_Air_Traffic_...

coryrc•45m ago
You don't need a union to have effective management. It should also be their incentive not to cause people's death by overworking employees. Which is also dumb because it costs more to overwork then hire appropriately with overtime laws... cops exploit this all the time to steal money from taxpayers. (The ones in Seattle only get caught when they accidently charge over 24 hours of overtime in a day)

Union rules that say only a particular classification of employee is allowed to pick up a small package from a loading dock and move it twenty feet are also bad.

The blame can go to the top, for not managing correctly.

2c0m•1h ago
I actually looked into becoming an ATC controller a year or two ago (I love aviation) and they had an age cap of ~30 to start training. I'm 32, so ruled out.
irishcoffee•54m ago
31. If you had started 2 years ago you should have been fine.
MisterTea•1h ago
When I heard about the crash I immediately recalled the recent articles about ATC shortages and overworked ATC's. And here we are. ONE dude running ATC for LaGuardia. Mind boggling.

I place no blame on the ATC as they were doing everything they could given the shit sandwich they were handed. I see this happening all over with staffs getting pared down to minimums, more (sometimes unpaid) over time, prices going up, and no raises.

m_fayer•1h ago
I’m not trying to minimize a tragedy, but maybe this is almost the perfect wake up call?

Not many fatalities but nevertheless a spectacular collision. At a major hub airport in a major city. It’s hard to look away from, the cause is obvious, and all that without hundreds of deaths.

amiga386•18m ago
Agreed. There are a whole bucketload of problems, each one contributing to the staff shortage. The US has problems that other countries don't have (or have less of). It's a long-term organisational issue. None of it is insurmountable, but things need to be done differently, and the politics of that may be insurmountable.

Being an air-traffic controller anywhere in the world is a very intense job at times, and needs a huge amount of proficiency that only a small number of people are capable of doing. Couple that with:

- the FAA expects you to move to where ATCs are needed, so many of the qualified applicants give up when they hear where the posting is. You can't force them to take the job!

- the technology is decades out of date and the Brand New Air Traffic Control System (it's seriously called that) won't roll out until 2028 at the earliest

- Obama's FAA disincentivised its traditional "feeder" colleges that do ATC courses to "promote diversity", net outcome was fewer applicants

- Regan broke the union in the 1980s

- DOGE indiscriminately decimated the FAA like it did most other government departments

itopaloglu83•1h ago
Setting people up for failure and then using them as scapegoats, this simply infuriates me.

Expecting a single person to consistently keep their mental picture clear and perfect for their entire career is asinine and irresponsible.

We need systems and tools to eliminate such errors and support people, not use them as a person to blame when things inevitably go wrong.

mikpanko•1h ago
According to NYT it seems like there were 2 controllers and “2 more in the building”. They also wrote that 2 seems normal for the late slower time of the night.

Not saying this is the right number of controllers to have, just sharing what I read in NYT.

amelius•1h ago
I'm going to make myself unpopular and ask if an AI could have prevented this accident.
blitzar•1h ago
You are absolulety right, the blockchain could have prevented this accident
dehrmann•1h ago
You don't need modern AI; you can build a system that does voice recognition, models the airport and airspace, and applies looks for violations.

Actually, you might be able to try this. Live ATC and radar is available.

kevmo•41m ago
The US intentionally created the ATC shortage. From Wikipedia:

The PATCO Strike of 1981 was a union-organized work stoppage by air traffic controllers (ATCs) in the United States. The Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) declared a strike on August 3, 1981, after years of tension between controllers and the federal government over long hours, chronic understaffing, outdated equipment, and rising workplace stress. Despite 13,000 ATCs striking, the strike ultimately failed, as the Reagan administration was able to replace the striking ATCs, resulting in PATCO's decertification.

The failure of the PATCO strike impacted the American labor movement, accelerating the decline in labor unions in the country, and initiating a much more aggressive anti-union policy by the federal government and private sector employers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Professional_Air_Traffic_...

arjie•1h ago
> According to the aviation safety reporting system administered by the US space agency Nasa...

Aeronautics, yes, but I was still surprised to see NASA and not the FAA here. But folllowing up here https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/overview/immunity.html

> The FAA determined that ASRP effectiveness would be greatly enhanced if NASA, rather than the FAA, accomplished the receipt, processing, and analysis of raw data. This would ensure the anonymity of the reporter and of all parties involved in a reported occurrence or incident and, consequently, increase the flow of information necessary for the effective evaluation of the safety and efficiency of the NAS.

Very neat. It's by design. Well done.

0xffff2•37m ago
I work in exactly this space as a NASA contractor. I don't actually have a massive amount of insight into the FAA, but my impression is that they don't do much in the way of R&D on their own. I think (without hard numbers mind you) the vast majority of FAA R&D work starts at NASA or other government labs and gets transferred to the FAA when it gets to a sufficient level of maturity. In that context, it's even more natural for NASA to host the ASRS system.
ndiddy•1h ago
I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted takeoff and declared an emergency, while calling emergency services for that plane, while coordinating multiple planes coming in to land, while also coordinating multiple planes trying to take off. With that kind of workload, an accident like this is an eventuality. Even after the fatal accident happened, he had to work for at least another hour before he could get relieved of his duty. Hopefully something will happen to fix this at some point rather than us collectively deciding that an accident or two per year is worth the cost savings of not keeping ATC properly staffed.
metalliqaz•1h ago
How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.
FL410•1h ago
And therein lies the problem. Clearly, having one overworked controller running a combined tower is not safe nor sustainable.
pc86•27m ago
Planes landing at a rate of one every 30-40 minutes isn't exactly "overworked."
gortok•23m ago
In this case there were two arrivals within 4 minutes of each other and two departures, in addition to the emergency plane that had just aborted takeoff.
pc86•18m ago
Which is a completely reasonable amount of traffic for one controller to handle. This wasn't the controller's fault. The firetruck received a clearance, had that clearance revoked, and either didn't hear the revocation or ignored it.
VK-pro•16m ago
I don’t have time to check flight logs but I personally landed at LGA coming from MDW on Sunday. And I also know people who got diverted within the hour coming back to LGA that night. 30-40 minutes doesn’t seem accurate. That aside, if you’ve ever done operational staffing, you’d know that you should probably have at least one redundancy. When there is any chance of emergency or two events happening simultaneously, you should have more than one person.

One last meta point. We live in the wealthiest country in the history of the world, and the highest air travel prices (some part is a function of longer distances I know). We should expect that we have ample coverage, if not over-coverage, at all times for one of our major metropolitan airports. Pay them.

bdamm•11m ago
12am-5am is very quiet, at about 1 per hour. But the accident happened during the 10pm-12am time slot, which is not as busy as other times of day, but can still have workload spikes as evidenced by this situation.

ATC should never work alone at any of the "Core 30" airports. https://www.aspm.faa.gov/aspmhelp/index/Core_30.html

ryanmcbride•1h ago
Maybe there should be more than one
metalliqaz•1h ago
Maybe. Lets see what the NTSB recommendations say.

However despite the downvotes I still haven't seen evidence that they were running understaffed at that moment.

What I do know is that the developing emergency on the tarmac due to an apparently hazardous smell in another plane is likely the cause of the confusion that led to this incident. That's a trigger that could have been exacerbated by fatigue but we don't have any evidence of that yet.

RankingMember•44m ago
> I still haven't seen evidence that they were running understaffed at that moment.

I think the disagreement you see is based on the definition of what "understaffed" means. Having one ATC to do ground and air control simultaneously seems like an under-staffing situation to begin with, regardless of whether it's a common practice.

thmsths•19m ago
There is also the angle of: even if there is an appropriate amount of controllers in the tower at a given time, how they do it can also hint at the issue. Being an ATC is a taxing job, mandatory overtime and 60 hours work weeks screams understaffing to me.
pc86•12m ago
It is possible for ATC to be understaffed as a profession, LGA to be understaffed as an airport, individual controllers to be overworked, and for it to be 100% reasonable to have a single controller at LGA in the middle of the night.
mmooss•6m ago
> Having one ATC to do ground and air control simultaneously seems like an under-staffing situation to begin with

Do we have evidence that one controller did all ground and air? The only evidence I've seen was the NY Times said that, according to a source, two controllers were working and two more were in the building.

In situations like this there is as lot of disinformation. The best thing to do is not add to it - a pile of bad information is not improved by piling more on. The best thing is to patiently find reliable info and stick to it.

murat124•25m ago
SPOF still applies here. You don't need evidence of fatigue or anything. You have only 1 of anything, you run the risk of ending up having nothing.
jen20•1h ago
> It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

What happens when they need the bathroom, or have some kind of medical problem? If it's really a common case for one controller to handle things, the system itself needs to be fundamentally rethought.

metalliqaz•1h ago
There are other people there, but the person on the radio is doing both.
cjrp•1h ago
That seems mad, given the volume of traffic they're working - even without emergencies. My local GA field is single controller, and that's VFR, grass runways, averages 40-50 movements/day.
pklausler•1h ago
"The system worked yesterday, so it should have worked forever."
jakelazaroff•1h ago
You are describing a staffing shortage.
pc86•17m ago
"Staffing shortage" doesn't mean "you can fit more people in the tower."

You can't think of any scenario having one controller makes sense?

arjie•12m ago
Is he? I can see the number of hours worked as evidence of a shortage, but prima facie it is not obvious that a single controller handling both ground and air is evidence of a 'shortage' if it is routinely considered feasible in the industry. It could just be an efficiency choice for low-traffic times. Based on some googling since I'm not an expert it seems this is called 'position combining' in the US and is pretty routine across the world. Therefore, if this is a problem the primary cause cannot be US policy because non-US airports also do this thing.

Here it's being done at SFO or so it seems: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?FileExtension=...

While searching I did find this other document where a GC (LC appears to be Local Control for local air traffic and GC is ground control) controller complains about combining due to short-staffing https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=19837915&Fi...

Well, it'll be an interesting report from the NTSB at least.

afavour•41m ago
What you just described is a long term staffing shortage.
inaros•28m ago
Hopefully some commercial professional pilots will comment on this thread, but if you go to sites where they normally hang out like:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com

You will see many are terrified ( in commercial pilot terms...) of flying into La Guardia or JFK...

pc86•27m ago
> the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages

How many planes land at LGA in the middle the night?

One controller overnight is completely reasonable.

inaros•27m ago
>> One controller overnight is completely reasonable

So if said controller has a medical episode?

pc86•22m ago
"Funny" enough if this controller had had a medical emergency (or just bad sushi) and been off the radios, this wouldn't have happened because the fire truck would not have received clearance to cross the runway and wouldn't have. Or at least would have crossed like the airport was uncontrolled, been much more careful and announced itself, and likely have seen the landing aircraft.
inaros•17m ago
An empty tower at La Guardia with a bunch of airplanes in the air not getting a reply to their calls is Die Hard 2 stuff. Spare me the Pete Hegseth school of ATC...
pc86•10m ago
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The GP is literally about a lone controller in the tower having a medical episode and what would happen after that.
MeetingsBrowser•16m ago
I can’t find a way to read this other than

“If we remove regulation, things will be safer because everyone will be more careful.”

inaros•12m ago
And we know how well that works: https://youtu.be/AWM0l8_F_X0?t=411
pc86•10m ago
You should try harder, because I'm not making any comment on regulation whatsoever. There are procedures that every controller and pilot knows for how to handle loss of radio contact.
penultimatename•14m ago
And if an aircraft needs to land due to an emergency? It’s amazing things work as well as they do, the system relies on only one thing going wrong at a time. This accident was an example of multiple things going wrong at the same time.
pc86•8m ago
Every accident is an example of multiple things going wrong at the same time.[0]

I'm going to pretend to know exactly what would happen in that precise scenario but I'm confident most commercial pilots get enough training to be able to handle it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

caconym_•17m ago
> One controller overnight is completely reasonable.

Do you really think it's appropriate to have zero margin for handling unusually high ATC workloads? Because we just saw what happens when you have zero margin for handling unusually high ATC workloads: people start dying.

ferguess_k•17m ago
Looking at the things he needs to juggle at the same time, is it really reasonable? Any standard we are referring here? Sure such cases are rare but that's why we have redundancies for critical positions.
bloudermilk•16m ago
Approximately one per minute in the 15 minute span proceeding this crash, including one that had an emergency takeoff rejection and was being maneuvered along with the emergency support vehicles that were being sent to attend to it
rekrsiv•15m ago
Can a single human being reliably and robustly maintain a safety-critical system alone under any circumstances, ever?

Ever?

MeetingsBrowser•15m ago
> One controller overnight is completely reasonable.

How many fatal accidents are reasonable in your opinion?

BorgHunter•11m ago
Normally? Zero. LGA has a curfew from midnight to six AM, April 5-December 31.

In practice? It depends. Delays have a tendency to cascade in the air travel system and the Port Authority can curtail or cancel the curfew at their discretion. How frequently do exceptions to normal ops have to happen for it to be unreasonable to use "normal ops traffic" as a justification for scheduling a single controller? Ultimately, controllers have to control the traffic that they get, not the traffic that they want/expect to get, and a system that is overly optimized becomes brittle and unable to deal with exceptions to the norm.

mrbukkake•1h ago
Maybe they could try using ICE agents as air traffic controllers too
annexrichmond•32m ago
Damn, this comment section is perfect example of how HN is no longer feels like HN. it's just reddit now.
antoineMoPa•17m ago
> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

annexrichmond•8m ago
Half the comments in this thread are not following the guidelines
fred_is_fred•31m ago
Does anyone know why the fire truck was driving across the runway in the first place? Was it a patrol, repositioning the truck, or was there an active incident that they were responding to? Seems like reducing the number of times you have to drive across an active runway is in general a good thing, but perhaps at an airport this old this is the only way to get from A to B.
nemomarx•25m ago
I believe it was responding to the other active incident that the ATC was also handling where a plane failed to take off?
fred_is_fred•19m ago
Was the 2nd plane on a runway still also?
avemg•14m ago
it was on a taxiway. The fire truck had to cross the runway to get to it.
Hovertruck•25m ago
They were responding to an incident (unidentified odor on another plane)
krisoft•20m ago
> Does anyone know why the fire truck was driving across the runway in the first place?

Yes we know. There was an other airplane who declared an emergency and was about to evacuate the passengers on the tarmac. The other plane in question had two aborted takeoffs, and then they smelled some “odour” in the aft of the plane which made some of the crew feel ill.

adolph•26m ago
It is surprising to me that airports do not use an interlock system for deconflicting the various paths segments that may be occupied by a vehicle. Trains have used mechanical ones since the 1800s [0]. The story and comments seem to indicate the only thing preventing collisions is the mind of one person--that sounds insane.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlocking

0xffff2•15m ago
While it's not as sophisticated, there is a technology called Runway Entrance Lights [0] that does somewhat the same thing in the specific context of this incident. LGA is one of 20 airports around the country where this system is installed, and you can clearly see that the system was functioning if you know where to look in the surveillance video that is circulating online. For whatever reason, the truck did not respect the indicator that they should not enter the runway. So in this specific incident, short of rail-like physical limitations on movement, I think it's unlikely that any amount of additional technology would have helped.

0: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/rwsl

lvspiff•11m ago
If school busses can look both ways before crossing train tracks you'd think a firetruck would look both ways for airplanes coming down a runway. Don't want to blame the firemen though - this was a series of extrmeemly unfortuante scenarios and people trying to keep the airport running safely. For years people have been on soap boxes saying the FAA/NTSB needs to do better, and yet year after year they are poorly run and poorly funded.
eviks•22m ago
With all the advances in technology, can there be no navigation app that can just tell you you're on a collision course instead of relying exclusivly on playing broken phone between flying and driving meatbags via a sitting one?
krisoft•15m ago
There is actually a set of lights which should have displayed red towards the trucks.

Were they not operating correctly, or did the driver ignore them is one of the questions the investigation will answer.

The system is called Runway Status Lights. And in case there is a disagreement between the ATC clearance and the lights the drivers are supposed to not enter the runway.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/rwsl

eviks•9m ago
The description is a bit vague, but I guess this should've automatically caught the landing plane immediately after it got the approval and started landing?

> When activated, these red lights indicate that ... there is an aircraft on final approach within the activation area

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LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

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