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447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

https://zenodo.org/records/19513269
78•iliatoli•2h ago

Comments

jmyeet•1h ago
Yeah, I've been baited by "breakthroughs" in storage technology for almost 40 years at this point [1]. I'll believe it when it's in Best Buy. Battery "breakthroughs" have really taken up the mantle of headline-grabbing research fund-raising articles so it's nice to see a throwback to the OG: storage.

[1]: https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1991/06/23/holograms-the-ne...

XorNot•34m ago
I mean battery breakthroughs are real though? BYD is now demoing 0-80% in 5 mins on production vehicles in China.

The price of the 50kwh unit I had put into my house was very low.

Sodium ion is ramping up too but is commercially available. That straight wasn't possible a few years ago till the electrode breakthroughs.

golem14•10m ago
Do you have any pointers on said 50kWh battery? Asking for a friend.
mkprc•1h ago
Sniff test: a paper with a single author and 53 revisions, listing a gmail address as contact information despite the author, after a brief internet search, appearing to have affiliations with CSU Global, (maybe) the University of Central Florida, and the San Jose State University Department of Aerospace.
iliatoli•1h ago
Author here. Three PhDs (Mathematics, Pisa; Quantum Chemistry, UCF; Materials Science, UTD — in progress), plus MS degrees from SJSU and CSU. The gmail is because this is independent work, not affiliated with any institution. v53 reflects thirteen years of development since the original 2013 publication (Graphene 1, 107–109). The barrier is verified at two independent levels of theory with a confirmed transition state. Happy to discuss the physics.
_alternator_•1h ago
Have you considered subjecting this to expert scrutiny by submitting to a journal? That's probably better than getting hot takes on HN by random technology enthusiasts, skeptics, anon experts, and trolls.
iliatoli•1h ago
It's under peer review at Physica Scripta (IOP) since March 25. HN is for visibility, not validation.
tux3•54m ago
Realistically I don't see how this could be submitted to a journal as-is.

I'm sure you could take this material and write a couple papers out of it, but right now this is a 60 page word document with commentary on a variety of topics from memory market economics to quantum computing.

It's full of self-congratulatory language like "The transition is not an incremental improvement within the existing paradigm; it obsoletes the paradigm and the infrastructure built around it". Alright, I'm happy to believe that this work is important. But this is not the neutral tone of a scientific article, it reads like ad copy for a new technology.

I'm sure there's interesting physics in there, but it needs a serious editing effort before it could be taken seriously by a journal.

iliatoli•51m ago
The paper has been under peer review at Physica Scripta (IOP) since March 25. The reviewers will decide what stays and what's trimmed. You're reading a preprint, not the final version. The tone in the architecture sections reflects the scope of the claim — reviewers may ask me to moderate it, and I will. The core physics (Sections 2–3) is standard computational chemistry: DFT, transition state optimization, CCSD(T) validation. Those sections read like any other ab initio paper.
_alternator_•40m ago
Just remember Watson and Crick's famously humble line in their 1953 Nature paper: "It has not escaped our notice that the specific pairing we have postulated immediately suggests a possible copying mechanism for the genetic material."

Big discoveries will speak for themselves.

ricardobeat•54m ago
That’s amazing. Do you have a home lab with an atomic microscope where you do your research?

And what’s the reason for going solo vs a research university, where I assume this type of research could be significantly sped up?

iliatoli•52m ago
No lab — the work is computational. All calculations run on a Dell Precision workstation with ORCA (quantum chemistry) software. An experimental collaborator is now preparing the C-AFM validation. The solo approach is a consequence of the work spanning multiple fields that don't share a single department.
hgoel•49m ago
Is there a reason you went for 3 PhDs? Especially since they're all in STEM? To me it's a red flag because the point of a PhD is to learn to do research, you don't need to get another one to move between fields (especially within STEM), just need to do research with people in those fields and gain experience.
iliatoli•48m ago
Each PhD was in a different country and decade. Mathematics (Pisa, 2000s), Quantum Chemistry (UCF, 2010s), Materials Science (UTD, now). The fluorographane work exists because all three converge — the barrier calculation is quantum chemistry, the proof structure is mathematics, and the material is materials science. I didn't plan it this way.
hgoel•46m ago
Ah, that's interesting. Different countries can be a fair reason I suppose.
juleiie•32m ago
Some people actually enjoy studying and learning in these spaces. Does everything have to be optimized for?
nine_k•23m ago
3 PhDs is quite some dedication to science, given that a PhD student life is neither that of plenty nor leisure.
juleiie•19m ago
Some people do not need to worry about material possessions as much as some others because of the random birth wealth lottery. Then they can pursue interests in less goal driven ways than it would otherwise seem wise
hgoel•1m ago
What's so special about specifically the PhD student experience that isn't accessible once you have the PhD?

My experience has been that research became much more fulfilling after finishing my PhD. I got more research independence, the level of work I was expected to do increased, and as a bonus, my salary almost tripled. It was like having the world open up, and starting to really experience being a scientist without my PI protecting me.

I was curious about their decisions because if you're taking on the opportunity cost of a PhD, it's probably because you enjoy research, but if you enjoy research, you wouldn't keep going back to the starting point. So, without additional context, it seemed like they just wanted the credentials.

Their explanation about different countries is potentially an explanation, it's not like I'm asking them to lay out all their personal circumstances behind the decision.

ilaksh•53m ago
Sniff test as in you turned your nose up without even looking at it on a purely surface level based on affiliation.

Smells like laziness to me.

doctorpangloss•44m ago
I suppose anyone can run the same computer simulations.
iliatoli•41m ago
Yes — the input files, level of theory, and software (ORCA 6.1.1, free for academics) are all specified in the paper. The calculations are fully reproducible.
aperrien•1h ago
Remarkable. If this material works and is flexible enough, we could someday see tape drives with hundreds of exabytes of capacity.
iliatoli•1h ago
Author here. The paper describes exactly this — a nanotape spool architecture with volumetric density of 0.4–9 ZB/cm³. Section 4.4 in the preprint.
est•58m ago
Perhaps title had a typo?

fluorographane -> Fluorographene

Can't find a single page about fluorographane

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=fluorographane&t...

But this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorographene

iliatoli•56m ago
Not a typo. Fluorographene is the sp² form (Nair et al. 2010). Fluorographane uses the -ane suffix to denote full sp³ saturation — same convention as graphene → graphane. The sp³ hybridization is what creates the bistable C-F orientation that stores the bit.
est•53m ago
TIL thanks!
Animats•57m ago
"A scanning-probe prototype already constitutes a functional non-volatile memory device with areal density exceeding all existing technologies by more than five orders of magnitude."

Does that mean a scanning tunneling microscope is the I/O mechanism? That's been demoed for atom-level storage in the past. But it's too slow for use.

iliatoli•55m ago
Yes, Tier 1 is scanning probe — C-AFM specifically. Slow but sufficient for proof of concept. The paper describes a Tier 2 architecture using near-field mid-IR arrays for parallel read/write, projecting 25 PB/s aggregate throughput. Tier 1 proves the physics. Tier 2 is the engineering path to speed.
ilaksh•50m ago
What do you need to build a demo of Tier 2? I am guessing if you can do that then you can get an investor.
iliatoli•47m ago
Tier 2 requires near-field infrared optics at sub-10 nm resolution — that's active research in several groups but not commercially available yet. The immediate next step is Tier 1: one C-AFM image proving the read, one voltage pulse proving the write. That's $300 in materials and access to an AFM. Already in progress with a collaborator.
rowanG077•43m ago
Using a mid-IR array with sub 10nm resolution is anything but an engineering path. Tech like that has never left the lab afaik.
iliatoli•40m ago
Fair point. That's why the paper labels it Tier 2 (near-term research) rather than Tier 1 (existing instrumentation). Tier 1 — scanning probe read/write on a single sample — is the immediate validation target and requires no new technology.
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447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

https://zenodo.org/records/19513269
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