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We accepted surveillance as default

https://vivianvoss.net/blog/why-we-accepted-surveillance
113•speckx•1h ago

Comments

nickandbro•1h ago
Whenever I read your articles, I get distracted by the space invaders and just play that instead. Maybe this is a problem with me being a bit ADHD, but I feel like I am not the only one
wao0uuno•1h ago
I just played for a couple of minutes and didn't even finish the article. Also suffering from ADHD but in my defense space invaders is pretty good with mouse controls.
ASalazarMX•19m ago
Also played the game, but I'm just easily entertained, prone to procrastination given the chance... and kind of lazy sometimes.
pineaux•1h ago
Play and read simultaneously. Its nice.
asdfman123•1h ago
Are you guys 12
john_strinlai•1h ago
famously, once you age past 12, you are no longer allowed to find anything fun.
GolfPopper•11m ago
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C.S. Lewis
anticorporate•1h ago
> me being a bit ADHD

Wait, what article?

WastedCucumber•49m ago
that was my experience too!
tencentshill•40m ago
If the author had something important to say, that really undermines it.
righthand•1h ago
WHATWG wants to co-mingle document rendering with javascript (this is the real reason they are removing XSLT and not proposing a replacement, it skirts this enforcement) so that when you try to disable javascript or block tracking it breaks the document rendering, leaving the only option to leave Javascript enabled and ad blockers off. Other protocols gemini, gopher etc don’t have the same issues because they’re already excluding Javascript.

What is really needed is a hard fork of major browsers by a grass roots community to advance HTML standards to include partial template rendering solutions without the reliance on Javascript.

Of course this is a startup forum so the response is just going to be wittled down to observations about economic value. However if users start to change/fight then the economics will too.

rapnie•1h ago
It wouldn't be that weird a thought for me that, preferably a group of, nation states cough up some serious money and give this a real start, beginning, and end in the form of a stable release. This already happens with major science and space projects, with budgets of billions. A browser is not simply a bunch'a software, having a modular open browser is a major deal and benefit to society at this point. Perhaps arguably more valuable than pumping yet more energy in a particle accelerator and other of mankind's pet projects in search for the unknown unknowns and deal with more pressing known knowns first.
marcosdumay•57m ago
> preferably a group of, nation states cough up some serious money and give this a real start, beginning, and end in the form of a stable release

It doesn't take serious money. It takes a constant stream of "sub-serious" money, stable for a long time.

A large city could pay for that project. It doesn't take a group of stations, what it takes is non-standard politics.

bakugo•1h ago
The irony of using AI to generate an article on this topic...
masfuerte•1h ago
More irony: with cookies disabled the article gets stuck in a continuous reload loop.
pineaux•1h ago
I agree. Was annoyed by it.
inventor7777•1h ago
When Apple first released App Tracking Transparency, I immediately used it to block the trackers and I have not even thought about it since because it is so simple and useful.

What a contrast to modern websites which require all sorts of weird clicking gymnastics to disable similar tracking.

ourmandave•1h ago
We should pass laws that require the weird clicking gymnastics to opt-in to tracking.

Instead of the default opt-in hidden in the terms and conditions nobody reads.

HWR_14•32m ago
The EU did that and people still bitch about GDPR banners on websites.
_factor•19m ago
They took what should have been a browser on/off switch and turned it into something almost worse.
StilesCrisis•52m ago
Ironically Google couldn't disable third-party cookies even if they wanted to; it's seen as anti-competitive to other tracking networks and was blocked by the courts.
inventor7777•10m ago
Really? Do you have a link? That sounds very interesting and very frustrating.

Regardless, because of such things I'm guessing the only ways to disable such tracking in the foreseeable future will still be 3rd party non-affiliated DNS/extensions or browsers such as Brave and Safari (to some extent).

alt227•29m ago
Its amusing that Apple itself is one of the biggest ad companies that exists, fed entirely from their own users private data. Yet by simply pointing the finger away from themselves and helping their customers block other ad companies efforts, they seem to have gained complete trust of all their users and most dont even know how much Apple are making in ad revenue from their own data.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/11/14/apples-4b-ad-busi...

nozzlegear•20m ago
I trust Apple with my private data. I don't trust Google with it, and I don't trust Joe Blow's Sketchy Ass Apps & Ads Service with it. Simple as.
nickburns•18m ago
Exactly. Amusing indeed.
inventor7777•13m ago
Yes, that is very true. Unfortunately, without a true non-Apple or non-Google OS, the ATT toggle is likely about as good as you can get. And it does stop the apps themselves getting raw access to your data, which is not something to sniff at.
pacija•21m ago
In my case firefox + arkenfox + ublock origin advanced mode require all sorts of weird clicking to enable similar tracking :)
morphle•1h ago
Page does not load in Safari and Chrome for various reasons
esseph•48m ago
> and Chrome

Works fine here Version 147.0.7727.101 (Official Build) (64-bit) (.102 is the Mac version)

Edit: Based on a comment below, you may have cookies disabled.

rapnie•1h ago
Blog got the hug of death, I think. Archive link: https://archive.is/bpNAw
_doctor_love•56m ago
This is all well and good but as long as advertising is how folks make money on the web, the surveillance state will persist.
GolfPopper•47m ago
At least the solution is obvious, even if the path to an ad-free web is not. And it's a solution that also has the advantage of being a solid public good.
anovikov•26m ago
The free internet of the workers and peasants? I mean, how will the websites make money?
GuinansEyebrows•15m ago
maybe we're better off without websites that only exist to make money.
ASalazarMX•13m ago
Mass surveillance has been the only thing where capitalists and communists wholeheartedly agreed to go all in. It has been pushed into law at every opportunity, done in grey areas when possible, and secretly when illegal.

It's evident proof that information is power.

dataflow•37m ago
Sorry to nitpick but tracking and surveillance are not the same thing. Go back to the last century for a second, before all this 21st-century tech came along. Just because your cell phone and towers would be able to track what rough region (let's call it "site") you were visiting, that doesn't mean they were surveilling you.

Surveillance implies things about bith intended usage and actual usage, etc. that -- simply put -- do not need to hold when you're tracking something. If the argument is genuinely that cookies have genuinely been used to place us under surveillance rather than mere tracking -- I have nothing inherently against it, but you need to support it with evidence. Simply pointing to the fact that they track some fact or metric that indirectly relates to you is not sufficient evidence of that.

And to be clear, I'm not saying I like tracking or we should be fine with it. I hate it too. But it's also a turnoff seeing people smearing one thing as another, and I don't think it's a great strategy to help win support for your cause.

incomingpain•35m ago
The government is going to surveil. That's not going to change.

It's whether or not warrantless searches are admissible; and they generally arent.

calmbonsai•9m ago
There's also the issues of geo-fenced warrants and the FISA courts in the U.S.

Warrant processes and issuance should not be secret nor generic enough to allow for "blanket" hoovering of Personally Identifiable Information.

taurath•28m ago
We did not - going to a website nowadays is akin to booting your grandma’s windows 95 PC - popups everywhere, banzai buddy, 20 toolbars, just utterly virus laden filth. The web is a place that used to have amazing views but it’s now only filled with billboards. Someday a new set of internets will come up and they’ll be good - it’s not expensive to make things good, it just needs to not be borne of utter libertarian zero-social-contract profit seeking.

Hell, I was shopping for furniture yesterday, and I swear all the popups even with ad blockers were there to prevent me from buying things. It doesn’t seem to be helpful for the stated goal.

anovikov•27m ago
Well, ever since the ads i see on iPhone Safari are utterly irrelevant bullshit because tracking there is crippled. Was 1996 88x31 banners world that just advertised random stuff, better than what we have today? They gave websites less money taking more space and annoyed users more.

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