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Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/2055992439031185782
82•bhouston•1h ago

Comments

tgv•1h ago
Link via xcancel: https://xcancel.com/ryangrim/status/2055992439031185782#m
mw67•1h ago
Crazy that these mega corporations still bow to the requests of countries. Would they do the same of any important actor requesting censorship? like if Elon or Bezos make a request, they'd get ignored, even though they're more powerful than Kuwait.
bombcar•1h ago
If you’re Elon or Bezos you know how to make the request in a plausible deniability way.
warumdarum•1h ago
The fact it gets public shows you are a b-tiwr customer, the bigbs have a sort of psychological warfare suit available. You dont loose your account, you loose your sanity.
csallen•1h ago
Elon and Bezos aren't more powerful than Kuwait. Kuwait is a sovereign government, with authority to write laws, raise an army, and do whatever it wants with its 5M+ citizens (draft them, imprison people, execute people, etc.) with pretty much no consequence unless they're absurdly reckless. There is more to power than money.
ameliaquining•58m ago
I think the argument being made is that they don't have any meaningful power over Meta's corporate decision-makers, even if they do have power over some other people.
csallen•46m ago
Right, but if you control access to a market of millions of people, a lot of companies will do what you say (i.e. follow your laws) in order to retain access to that market, as well as protect their local employees from jail. I would say that counts as meaningful power.
benoau•8m ago
In theory, but the last two years have also seen Zuckerburg, Musk and Cook openly defying the EU, one of the largest markets on the planet.
stefan_•46m ago
They also shipped 0 barrels of oil last month, the basis for 90% of gov revenue, 50% of its GDP. Clearly their faux workforce of subsidized "natives" and "indentured servants" is heading for a fulminant blowup, with no one in charge with the faintest clue towards mitigation.

So now there's no power, no money. Hence the attempts at message control. I don't think it's for Meta to soften their fall.

kjkjadksj•45m ago
Kuwait cannot do any of that unilaterally. They are a vassal state in the american hegemony.
KaiserPro•38m ago
are we talking in theory or practice?

Kuwait's sovereign fund has about 1 trillion under management. A couple of phone calls about disposals and its surprising what changes.

However, its my understanding that this page was promoting/representing the Muslim Brotherhood.

mountainb•27m ago
We fought what, two wars for this vassal? Deleting an account is a pretty minor favor compared to that.
pessimizer•29m ago
> these mega corporations

The US would "bow" to the requests of Kuwait, too. Because it's less "bowing" than that they don't care about you, and Kuwait now owes them a favor.

> if Elon or Bezos make a request, they'd get ignored

Not a chance. Elon and Bezos could probably tell Kuwait to kill somebody and they would.

ergocoder•14m ago
It's crazy that mega corporations follow the country's regulations.

Bad stuff. I know.

tamimio•1m ago
Well, homosexuality is criminalized in Kuwait for example, do we see Meta banning accounts because of it? Suddenly the company doesn’t follow the country’s regulations. Meta aligns with israel narrative (notorious against anything that goes against that), and it seems that person account wasn’t aligned with that, so they got banned, that’s the real reason, it’s never about following other countries’ laws or whatever, just a legal justification so the company isn’t directly blamed for it, selective censorship.
root_axis•10m ago
Access to Kuwait's market is far more valuable than anything Elon or Bezos has to say about how meta operates its business.
leephillips•6m ago
Google (including YouTube) has black-holed content at the request of the Chinese and Pakistani governments and in response to domestic Muslim pressure groups. This effects content shown everywhere, including within the United States:

https://lee-phillips.org/youtube/

like_any_other•56m ago
My favorite part is all that Meta will say is "account doesn't follow Community Standards" [1]. Impossible to defend against such a vague accusation, and they get to keep the real reason secret.

[1] Really they're Meta's standards - it wasn't "the community" that wrote them.

737min•42m ago
Yes but this is different - a Muslim country enforcing its own rules against an Islamist activist, and Meta complying.
like_any_other•33m ago
Then Meta can write "account disabled due to legal order by the Kuwait judiciary", or wherever the order came from, instead of hiding behind "Community Standards".

I see this all the time in such cases - deflections about the legality of censorship, to avoid the issue that they want to keep the censorship itself, or the source of it, secret. "They" in this case being Meta, unless they produce a legal order compelling them to deceive us.

737min•30m ago
Yes more clarity better. Here is summary of Kuwait laws

https://www.lawgratis.com/blog-detail/media-laws-at-kuwait

KaiserPro•37m ago
> it wasn't "the community" that wrote them.

Have you read them? they are acutally quite good. its a shame they are not enforced evenly.

like_any_other•20m ago
Did I say they're not good, or did I say the "community" (as if the wildly different groups that use Meta share a single community) didn't write them?

And if they're so good, then Meta can take credit for them and call them "Meta's Standards", instead of gaslighting us into thinking there is some shared "community" that encompasses Kuwait and California and Belarus, and that this community has agreed on a single set of standards to be imposed on everyone across the globe.

737min•45m ago
Context: the popular account is a promoter of Muslim Brotherhood, banned by US and many Mideast countries.
Tyrubias•42m ago
In a sane world, the US as a supposed bastion of free speech and personal liberties would enact legislation that requires companies to provide a specific, articulable reason for suspending accounts due to rules violations and offer everyone the chance to appeal. That would serve as a counterbalance to more authoritarian regimes insisting companies like Meta censor people, even if the US can’t guarantee it for people not affiliated with the US. Unfortunately, the US seems more intent on censoring its own residents and becoming one of those authoritarian regimes than actually doing anything about it.
giancarlostoro•31m ago
In a sane world the Twitter files published out of X would have had more attention. The FBI having Twitter deleting posts and banning accounts sounds like the most blatant violation of the First Amendment I've ever seen in my life, but here we are in a world where nobody cares about that. It's only bad when the other side does it will wind us all up in a world where there is no more free speech to go around because we've sold it all off for politics.
KaiserPro•28m ago
> requires companies to provide a specific, articulable reason for suspending accounts

wouldn't that violate free speech though? forcing a company to keep something up/take something down is entirely up to them no?

traverseda•18m ago
You can be protected by safe harbour provisions, or you can editorialise your content. I don't think you should have both.

Free speech does not cover scams and fraud, something that happens on their platform. Society doesn't take any action against them for publishing illegal content, scams, libel, fraud, because they aren't a newspaper. They're more like a newspaper printing house.

In my opinion they should probably be losing those protections and should suffer legal consequences for the content their users post. The moderation has reached a point where they ate defacto editorialising content.

An alternative to that could be opting in to some kind of third party moderation arbitration process.

like_any_other•14m ago
Don't conflate the broad concept of free speech, with the specific attempt at its defense that is the 1st amendment of the US constitution.

Giant unaccountable companies privatizing the public square harms free speech. Forcing them to at least reveal why something was censored would help free speech more than it would harm it. Unless you subscribe to the myopic legalistic 1st amendment position that "free speech" is maximized when companies can act with the least restrictions, no matter how unable to speak or be heard that makes individuals, so long as it wasn't the government that silenced them.

dev_l1x_be•25m ago
Becoming? It has always been this way.
bekon•24m ago
In a sane world, hackernews wouldn't shadowban accounts for wrongthink.
anonymousiam•7m ago
citation?
ptdcc•24m ago
Agreed but Meta also banned a standing US president, under pressure from other Americans that claim they believe in free speech. It's clear that Meta doesn't stand for free speech and will ban anyone. It's also clear that many in the US don't want free speech, they only want their speech to be free.
thejazzman•10m ago
When the standing president uses his speech to incite violence at the capital, attempt a coup, spread proven lies about health issues directly harming citizens...

oh, right, free speech. everyones allowed to do anything because they use their VOICE to INCITE harm and that's enough abstraction that others can't see the facade???

bull shit.

hilariously•6m ago
I figured the speech part was ok until it declined into an active coup but that's just me.
skywhopper•1m ago
“Free speech” has never meant you can say or do anything you want.
toasty228•22m ago
> the US as a supposed bastion of free speech

Only americans believe that, this is almost as dumb as when they try to use dollars in Europe, "but it is valid tender I tell you!" or when they believe their TSA precheck works in China

gatlin•21m ago
Do Americans often try to use dollars in Europe?
toasty228•17m ago
They also try to drive to canada with their guns, and believe they can't be "foreigners" because they're american. 30% of americans are functionally illiterate, no surprise really.

https://immigration.ca/americans-frequently-caught-bringing-...

edent•11m ago
Yes.

Everyone has a story about being stuck behind an irate American who can't understand why their currency isn't accepted abroad.

I've seen it in the UK - when a tourist tried to leave a tip in dollars for a bemused waiter.

Tyrubias•10m ago
My point is that Americans claim this, but it’s partially propaganda.
OtomotO•14m ago
The US are an oligarchy with the PR department being instructed to claim they are thr bastion of free speech though, so ex falso quodlibet.
tamimio•11m ago
Oligarchy and oligopoly as well.
benoau•11m ago
Unfortunately we live in a world where any attempt to regulate "big tech" is met by massive campaigns to prevent it.
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Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

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