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Germany goes from labour shortages to hiring freezes

https://www.ft.com/content/2a6c1cb9-6c11-41c8-a8ea-a367b8799126
37•doener•1h ago

Comments

SockThief•1h ago
https://archive.ph/FtxZ9
oytis•1h ago
Jokes on FT, we have both
fuzzybear3965•1h ago
"We" refers to Germany?
oytis•56m ago
Yes
hugh-avherald•50m ago
We are all Berliners.
zelphirkalt•36m ago
I am not so sure we really have or had both. Maybe for roles like electrician and tiler and such. But for roles like teachers, I feel it is not the case, or policy makers are extremely stupid here. The hurdles for someone to become a teacher without having studied that are still very high. It doesn't seem like policies a nation would implement, if they really wanted more teachers. For example you need to have 500h of base level pedagogy training (which would be OK) and of course you need to be very knowledgeable in the subject you want to teach (also makes sense), but that's not enough, no, they want, that usually after 3 years you teach 2 subjects, not only the one you are knowledgeable in. So you are expected to either have sufficient knowledge (lectures at university count towards that, but may well not be sufficient) in a second subject, or to somehow catch up on that.

In my case, I did consider becoming a teacher for IT stuff. Not really "IT", as pupils would first learn the basics of course, and the really interesting stuff might not even fit into the curriculum, but I could well imagine teaching what I know and maybe even establishing an extracurricular computer programming club or something. I would feel great passing on my knowledge. But what second subject to teach? ... The only other applicable thing I had in some amount during my studies is ... math. Ugh. You telling me I might have to take additional math lectures, with people who study to become math teachers?! No friggin way man. Also am not a native English speaker, and while I use English every day all day long, I don't think I have the detailed knowledge to teach it responsibly to students, unless they are total beginners, but I won't be teaching IT stuff in primary school, now will I.

If you stick to only one subject, perhaps they will tolerate you, but your salary will forever be a reduced one, even if you work the same hours, just because you only do one subject, and no matter how much of an expert you are.

When it comes to IT/software engineering I don't think there ever was a shortage. Just businesses, implementing big tech hiring processes for their tiny startups and then playing surprised pikachu, that they are "not finding talent".

joe_mamba•29m ago
> It doesn't seem like policies a nation would implement, if they really wanted more teachers.

Aren't those hurdles put in by teachers' unions to ensure they maintain a leverage over their jobs market? Same is for doctors, notaries, etc in a lot of countries.

watwut•21m ago
None of what he listed is some kind of outrageous demand. You can disagree about the "two subjects" thing and it would be valid disagreement, but hardly an outrageous one. A teacher teaching two subjects is not even some kind of German specific thing.
HPsquared•28m ago
I imagine the doctors situation is the same. Also the houses situation.
rmetzler•10m ago
https://www.heise.de/news/20-Jahre-unbemerkt-1440-Lehrerstel...
cardanome•5m ago
Policy makers are not stupid, the system is working as intended.

The intention is to destroy public education in favor of private schools. Same as public health care has been systematically destroyed. It's all part of the neoliberal agenda.

Or take mental health care. We have enough therapists but we don't allow them to work with patients on public health care. We give that license only to a select few ensuring that people wait 6 months to a year if they want to get a therapy spot. Otherwise too many people would get therapy and that would cost money.

The goal is to make rich people richer and ensure they have enough desperate and cheap labor to exploit.

ofrzeta•26m ago
Fachkräftemangel is just a joke, you know. There are enough Fachkräfte for everything.
moepstar•16m ago
No, there’s only enough Bundestrainer every other world championship…
joe_mamba•59m ago
There was never a labor shortage, just a shortage of pay from unscrupulous employers being addicted to cheap labor.
unsupp0rted•56m ago
Luckily they’ve brought in plenty of people eager to sacrifice short term being exploited for long term exploiting others.
pietro72ohboy•49m ago
And who are these people?
angry_octet•29m ago
Indians. Well educated, hard working, and willing to put in 20 years of serfdom to get that green card. Even a 30% discount on wages is still a better quality of life than their alternatives.

If they were granted proper work visas with portability then wages would go up. That's why Elon and co love H1Bs.

kingleopold•21m ago
Germany can't do this because nobody wants to learn German + paid funny amounts compared to USA
watwut•10m ago
Germany had high influx of immigrants.
spwa4•57m ago
Creating an ever-larger union makes goods cheap(er) by moving jobs out of expensive markets.

Surprised?

akie•33m ago
Germany went from labour shortage to hiring freezes in like two to three years. This has nothing to do with unions, which have been on a long downward slope for decades. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356608/trade-unions-ger...

Stop watching Fox News.

nephihaha•31m ago
Germany was one of the prototypes for the European Union in my view. I'm not talking about violent expansion but the Zollverein and other similar processes which united Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria with a number of other Länder.
croes•30m ago
Shame on the workers who want their share from the work they did, poor shareholders, all their hard work for nothing. /s

Unions in Germany have less power than in France for instance. The rights to strike are more restrictive

AdrianB1•53m ago
The article is low quality. It talks a bit about the problem, not about the cause and it does not help anyone.

The example at the beginning seems to be a now classic "I have a degree in an area where supply greatly exceeds demand". There is demand, there is supply, but there is a misalignment of qualifications and interests. If "well-qualified people" means fresh graduates in domains with low demand, then the qualification does not matter. In areas like constructions and handymen there is a serious shortage, if not a crisis, in the entire Western Europe. There are jobs, but not the ones most people want.

Too many people go to universities for a degree without checking if there is demand for these degree. Many that I know go to universities just to have a degree, they don't even care what is the domain. I have a childhood friend that is regularly unemployed, he is a historian, but he does not like working in archeological sites and there is not enough need for historians. At the same time we cannot find enough people for construction works, it is hard work and most people don't want it (diversity and equality does not work in such jobs, never did).

skirge•44m ago
I come from Eastern Europe. Teachers used to tell us that we had to go to university if we wanted to have an easier life later on.
nephihaha•29m ago
We all got told this. The trouble is that it isn't always true. A good STEM degree could do, but so many others don't. Now we're seeing the slow death of some of the professions, and it's started with accountancy.
Escapado•43m ago
> Too many people go to universities for a degree without checking if there is demand for these degree.

I agree for certain fields such as your example but until recently software engineers were in disproportional demand and that has changed pretty dramatically in less time than one would need to get a degree in the field.

Edit: And the example of people working in construction: I know a few. Their companies are booked out for the next 2 years. They, however have shitty pay and disproportionately many work-caused health problems. The owners of those companies are having a good time though.

joe_mamba•32m ago
>They, however have shitty pay

A 24 year old friend works construction, building and restoring facades and such. Makes 70-80k Euros/year with his own schwarzgeld overtime outside of work. It's on par with a senior SW engineer with 10YOE here. Hard work indeed, but not poorly paid.

It's only poorly paid for unskilled positions in construction that are basically human carrying robots who haven't yet been automated.

noosphr•43m ago
>There are jobs, but not the ones most people want.

There is no such thing as a shortage in labor markets. There is just people not willing to pay the correct price.

joe_mamba•27m ago
Employers not paying the market price is one thing, but you're forgetting the government distorting the labor market with generous welfare payments for those which choose to avoid work they don't like and haven't contributed to the system, making employment taxes high and CoL higher for those who do work and contribute. It takes two to tango.

I once met this foreign guy in Germany who lived a life bouncing between seasonal part time work and unemployment and laughed at me when he heard I was working and how much I was making. He said, "why don't you go on welfare and have kids instead? The government pays your rent and bills and no more stress from work."

IMHO if you want to restore balance in the jobs market, then you need to cut welfare and employment taxes. As long as government burdens both the employee and employer with crazy taxes, and then redistributes those taxes poorly via corruption, populism and incompetence, then of course the market will always be distorted and fucked and there will always be a shortage and an oversupply, never a balance.

sieiw•16m ago
If you think the market will clear simply by doing this then you’re utterly delusional.
piva00•3m ago
Does German welfare really pay generous benefits if people avoid working altogether?

I really don't know much about it, I'd have assumed it follows a similar model to the Swedish one: you can be on benefits while searching for a job, there's even a government agency tasked with finding positions you might qualify, you are required to apply to X jobs a month, and if you get offered a job you need to take it or you will get benefits cut.

Of course, there are ways to prolong it but it's definitely not enough to create major distortions, you will eventually run the clock out on the unemployment payments. Also to have decent unemployment you need to have contributed to an unemployment fund, there's a national one available to all citizens which doesn't pay much, otherwise you need to have funded the one provided by your union.

oytis•38m ago
I dunno man, people are complaining about not being able to secure a vocational training position, especially as a foreigner. Maybe a bit of diversity and equality could help
slaw•31m ago
Migrants to Germany account for 30.2% of the total population.

Is Germany not enough diverse for you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany

oytis•8m ago
Yes, sorry, there is a lot of diversity of course, especially on the lower level. It's rather equality and inclusion that need improving.

It's an anecdotal evidence, but while looking for a job I liked looking up employees on linkedin, then looking up the leadership on company's website. First one would always be much more diverse than the second one

dgellow•4m ago
From your own link 30% is the widest definition possible:

> As of 2024, around 17.4 million people living in Germany, or 20.9% of the population, are first-generation immigrants, while the population with a migrant background in the wider sense stood at approximately 25.2 million, accounting for 30.2% of the total population of 83.5 million

Thats a very misleading statistic

nephihaha•22m ago
A friend of mine went to Berlin to learn German. She's Spanish of Moroccan Berber origin... She said she encountered barely any native speakers, and many people tried to speak English to her instead. She ended up quitting as a result. I was in part of suburban Frankfurt am Main and had a similar experience. So depending on where you are, there is plenty of diversity. Like most larger European cities, Frankfurt and Berlin now lack sense of place while having a sense of anomie.
oytis•4m ago
> she encountered barely any native speakers, and many people tried to speak English to her instead

Germans often switch to English when they hear an accent or hesitation

joe_mamba•38m ago
> It talks a bit about the problem, not about the cause and it does not help anyone.

Nobody wants to talk about the cause because it's not politically correct: Government paying people enough to avoid doing work they don't like.

> If "well-qualified people" means fresh graduates in domains with low demand, then the qualification does not matter.

It matters because generations of young people have been gaslit by the government and by society that a degree from a prestigious government accredited university is a meal ticket.

>areas like constructions and handymen there is a serious shortage, if not a crisis, in the entire Western Europe.

You think Eastern Europe is spared? Who do you think works on construction sites in Western Europe, if not Eastern Europeans.

>it is hard work and most people don't want it

Cut all welfare and government handouts, cut taxes on labor and on employment.

Tade0•19m ago
> Cut all welfare and government handouts, cut taxes on labor and on employment.

Eastern Europe has the former, and as for the latter entrepreneurs in the industry just don't pay their taxes - ask me how I know.

There's still a shortage.

croes•33m ago
And what happens with high demand and low supply?

Strangely the wages don’t rise as one would expect.

And companies are picky, they want a perfect fit for their position including the work processes and programs.

Delusional.

watwut•14m ago
> , he is a historian, but he does not like working in archeological sites

Most historians who work as historians dont work in archeological sites, so I dont see how that part is relevant.

> In areas like constructions and handymen there is a serious shortage, if not a crisis, in the entire Western Europe. There are jobs, but not the ones most people want.

Are salaries going up?

> it is hard work and most people don't want it (diversity and equality does not work in such jobs, never did)

Like, you mean, immigrants wont be accepted if they apply? Cause wherever I was, these low level jobs were exactly the jobs where immigrants went first - they would hire literally almost anyone as they were not picky on language knowledge, cultural knowledge or even skills. All they asked for was time and ability to accept low salary with not too great conditions.

But, if they wont accept immigrants on principle, the inability to find workers is their own problem. Native Germans has obviously more options.

woodpanel•47m ago
FT is four years late to this.
markvdb•27m ago
One could reasonably have expected much worse than "just" automotive and energy intensive sectors in crisis in Germany.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine. The Trump administration actively shrinking the economic cake worldwide. Its active economic and cultural warfare against Europe. Nothing to sneeze at.

Germany and by extension the EU have shown remarkable resilience for now. The question what will happen next should an actual crisis follow. Don't be surprised should Europe further integrate its capital markets and defense to some extent.

NordStreamYacht•23m ago
You forgot about the energy crisis: Nord Stream for one.
bestham•21m ago
That is just a side effect of Russia attacking Ukraine.
NordStreamYacht•18m ago
That's the part which I don't understand: so what? Let them duke it out, why would you passively destroy your own country?
whizzter•14m ago
Carmakers in Germany has a bit of blame for not moving quickly enough, but China hogging materials doesn't help.

The chemical sector hit though feels more self-inflicted by the government that closed down nuclear plants to rely on Russian gas. The annoying part (Nordstream unrelated) is that they didn't see it fit to put a brake on the nuclear decomissioning already in 2014 when Russia invaded Ukraine first.

NordStreamYacht•20m ago
Germany is run by very strange people.

People who shut down nuclear and coal plants in favour of unreliable wind and solar.

It's almost as if they want to close down their industry.

xplt•16m ago
Username checks out :))
dgellow•15m ago
Almost as if you had different groups of flawed humans with different visions, beliefs and goals trying to somehow govern the country. It’s not like other countries are always acting rationally…

Getting rid of nuclear was a completely obvious blunder, I don’t think that says much about German people being weird or wanting to get rid of their industry. It was a short-termist political decision

kuerbel•10m ago
Germany is run by very strange people.

People who want to cling on to fossil fuels from other countries.

It's almost as if they want to be dependent.

aleda145•13m ago
Oh so lobbying the EU comission to both slash CO2 targets and adding tolls to chinese EV cars did not actually make German auto manufacturers more competitive. Who would have thunk?

Yes I'm bitter how much influence the German car companies have over the union.

ololobus•7m ago
The job market all over the world is ultimately changing. Wars, AI, energy crisis, etc. — it’s a combination of factors. Yet, the article is too shallow, so it doesn’t clarify much.

The two examples are not really representative, “press spokesman at a small industry association” and entry-level “apprenticeship in marketing communications and a bachelor’s degree in international management”. I don’t want to say that they are completely bs jobs but, well, these are quite niche. Both seem to be only ‘affordable’ for a strong economy, not during an economic instability.

What I’d like to get answers to is why if everyone says about shortages of nurses, doctors, teachers, plumbers and other handymen, highly qualified engineers capable of making some complex stuff like rockets; I don’t really see any policy makers pushing to make such jobs more appealing, I don’t see people around talking about moving to any of such areas even if they struggle or lose their office/corporate jobs, or talking about their kids learning to do one of them

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