As more and more people delegate stupid things to their agent, this type of person will become increasingly common. Products like RustRover and CLion will be a much harder sell to audiences that don't even use an LSP in their day-to-day workflow.
JetBrains is probably working on a contingency plan as we speak.
He tells me, and I quote, "Oh, all the files are red."
Trying to find the stable point of agentic coding is like trying to catch a falling knife. Will you still need to look at diffs? I for one no longer make any edits, as a policy - I either tell the agent to fix it, or tweak a skill or memory or doc so it doesn't make the same mistake a second time, or configure something adversarial. But does that continue indefinitely?
I rather have my agents talking to my IDEs.
I'm glad that works for you, but you'll pry my free software from my cold dead hands. :)
My guess is they are still very useful for more difficult code! But yeah, I can't imagine ever caring about "code" any more, and therefore cannot fathom the need for a full fledged IDE.
Having just made the switch to Kubuntu, I'm going to try Kate as my primary editor for a while. It's missing features, but it sure is snappy.
None of those matter if they just close the IDE before it indexes.
> When all of these tiny issues come together, it makes me NOT want to program. I don’t want to sit around and wait for startup times to get my ideas onto the screen. I don’t want to worry that my CPU or RAM is going to be exhausted and I am going to have to restart my machine. I want to open my editor and immediately enter a flow state. I want the tooling to assist me when useful, and stay out of my way when not.
I have IDE tooling experience since Borland products for MS-DOS, and plenty of programming editors as well, between PC, Amiga, Mac and UNIX clones.
And startup is something that happens only once for me, then it stays open all day (unlike vim which I close and open repeatedly)
It was like it only had the basic language support plugin I wrote for myself at uni: basic syntax and current file/directory only source files loaded into context.
So any referenced projects, tooling, even packages in one language, and you have false positive errors everywhere.
If I have access to a LSP and DAP, also do most of my refactoring through c tags and vim grep (or grug-far if I want to be fancy). What IDE specific features am I missing out on that can't be replicated?
Being earnest here because I always screenshare with co-workers doing a variety of things and there is nothing I ever see that is impressive or makes me want to switch.
First, that doesn't exist, and the notion's laughable.
Second, I have every feature I actually want to use in Emacs (and Zed and even *vim), and have no reason to believe that any random bullet point someone might come up with 1) doesn't exist in those editors, or 2) that I'd use it anyway.
- Automatic spring service detection
- Debugger (remote, local , with access to state, stack and ability to modify the state while stepping through), though I assume this is possible with neovm?
- built-in profiler
- can run individual tests seamlessly
- understands bytecode enhancers like Lombok
- Find Usage, find symbol, language specific navigation, showing class hierarchies, going up/down the hierarchies etc (maybe in conjunction with LSP, other editors can do a decent job?)
- Advanced refactoring (extracting classes, interfaces, inlining functions, extracting functions/methods)
- built-in database explorer
- built-in Git support (I have struggled mightily with VSCodes git interactions - but this might just be an individual preference)
- markdown/html previews
Basically, I barely have to get out of the IDE.
2) I am in the same boat with slowness. I've been using PHPStorm for over 10 years and it has always been "slow", but the newest pain point is that I will have claude in a terminal update a file. If the file is open in PHPstorm's viewing pain, it might take 10+ seconds to update the contents: I now always "update from disk" if I want to copy the contents outside of my KVM. It's just absolutely terrible workflow.
3. I have also found all of their AI efforts to not only be poorly executed, but executed in poor taste: it's just IN THE WAY rather than being helpful.
4. I mostly don't appreciate most of their features, generally. My flow is pretty simple. I no longer use most of the features. I just don't need the 8000lb elephant any more.
This on a 64GB ram Ryzen 7 5825U.
Curious what hardware you’re on. I’m in the same camp with JetBrains products, performance has always been my biggest complaint. Apple M chips made a huge difference though. It’s still not my preference, but at least it’s a lot more usable now. Most of my colleagues run multiple instances daily without issues.
This is the thing that drives me insane. The most annoying part is that they haven't built a proper cross-idea way to diagnose this. How hard is it to just have a UI, or even some text log, that says "I'm reindexing because X, Y, Z have changed" or something?
Now that I work on 3-8 concurrent projects, I want to have them most of them open so I can interact, sense-check, be engaged in the work. When I tear down one worktree, ALL projects open in RubyMine concurrently re-index. It kills my M3 Max and I have to force quit. Then when I restart RubyMine it does the same so I have to race to press the tiny pause button on just enough of the projects for it to not die. There's no way to tweak the re-indexing settings or determine when it will kick off. WHY it kicks off - i don't know.
This is the single thing that's led me to Zed/VSCode, or to not open more than 2 at a time.
it's sad, but what can you do.
JetBrains is simply not interested in power users and professionals anymore, and seem to be utterly unaware that that's their core customer base.
I canceled my all-products subscription after more than ten years and I'll be using 2024 versions until the wheels fall off.
- every new release breaks something
- the syntax highlight and auto completion engine has glaring bugs when using multiple file splits. Bugs are open for a decade already.
- performance is complete dog shit. Typing a characters spins up several cores at 100%.
- QA plays the "test the bug on the latest and report back or it doesn't exist" game.
Sorry but Clion is over.
So I also hate jetbrains, give me my shortcut get guys!!
I like ZGC. And having the IDE grab more RAM immediately on startup than the default. Something like Xms=4g or however it's done.
I cannot understand why Jetbrains keep the VM settings as constrained as they do. It's a big difference.
Many people told us we were crazy to compete with such a mature product as DataGrip before we got started.
It has been fascinating to speak to people who use database apps and to learn about their experiences.
Now, we have many, many customers telling us that they have cancelled their DataGrip/JetBrains sub and have switched to using our product, mainly due to speed but also cost.
Their products are really, really slow.
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Open the whole project I'm in:
$ zedme
$ zedme foo.rs
One moment, I'm happily working away in a terminal. One second later, I'm looking at a full-featured editor with all the tooling I want.
That's the performance bar, the expectation. Slower than that and I have to adapt my workflow to the editor, not vice versa, and I've never used an editor so great that I'm willing to tolerate that.
Most of that stuff is proprietary and cannot be plugged into terminal.
The only attempt I’ve seen was actually by Jetbrains with Resharper beta for vscode
of course an editor like Zed is faster than CLion but it makes little sense to compare the two. People use full blown IDEs like Jetbrains or Visual Studio for their heavier features like debugging and profiling, not because they feel snappy. When I write C++ my workflow has always been to use vim for editing and use VS for debugging.
For C# development Jetbrains Rider is second to none.
The number of static analysis, refactorings, inspections, dynamic analysis, slow code paths hightlights, profiling, etc.
It just cannot be done in neovim no matter how I would like to switch.
For C++ (like the OP’s case) — maybe the situation is different. I’ve heard CLion is a meh.
—
Also Jetbrains IdeaVim plugin is the best vim emulation I’ve seen. Nothing comes close with vim plugins support, vimrc, and what have you.
I tried vim mode in Zed — it’s a joke. Immediately uninstalled and got back to vscode, at least it has some vimrc support for custom bindings.
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Also I don’t get the start-up argument: just don’t close the app, dummy :-). YMMV of course depending on the language.
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tldr; there is nothing to replace rider with. Because Rider is an actual IDE with tons of proprietary bells and whistles that actually matter
Then again, my dev machine is a Threadripper with tons of ram. I would sing a different song if I needed to work kn macbook air with 16gb of ram.
Once every year or so I get annoyed with a bugged JetBalrains update or memory leaks. IdeaVim has been one of the main things pulling me back to JetBrains for a while now, although the neovim extension in vscode is also very good these days.
The thing is, I don't know what I'd use otherwise. I demand an actual IDE, not a text editor that allows me to install a ton of plugins to make it into a half-baked IDE (ie, vim).
Maybe I should actually give VSCode a strong try. I've only used it as a code viewer for anything that's not Python.
Other than that, I must agree with this article.
I've also been having massive problems with their sync- like between IDEs or even upgrading versions, I have to reconfigure all my plugins and settings bimonthly. And their AI assistant is so obnoxious- it is a chore to turn off and it randomly turns itself back on for me, ignoring the fact it kinda sucks.
The speed and reindexing issues are also a big problem. I had to hack my way around Tauri when I was using it a year or so back (not sure if this is still an issue). The tauri_ctx! macro apparently generated a lot of code, and slowed RustRover down to a crawl, where syntax highlighting couldn't keep up- it was unusable. I ended up having to move it to it's own crate.
If anyone has something roadmapped to replace CodeWithMe, it's worth bucks.
Of course without telling: "while upgrading, you will loose functionalities except by buying our new edition"
I'd really like some context here. Because for some people this is like "My M4 is out of date now the M4 ultra is out" and for others it's "I think computers really took a step back when when we started to talk about Gigahertz and Gigabytes, a 386 is all I need".
It is completely expected that it’s slower.
I remember my first job I had to request a new workstation just to tolerate using Visual Studio. (Actually, all I asked for was an SSD, but my manager over-delivered and went ahead with a whole new workstation)
It is of course sluggish to index large projects, but it's equally slow on my brand new Ryzen system. Otherwise it's completely fine. It was my main daily driver dev machine until 2024.
Also at least Rider makes special tweaks with elevated access and what have you for antivirus exclusions
Really my biggest thing for jetbrains is the cost, of course my company pays for a license on my main machine but I've been paying for a personal license as well and have been thinking of making the switch to Zed/NeoVim/VSCode etc. for a while just to save a few bucks every month.
threethirtytwo•39m ago