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EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

https://www.heise.de/en/news/Chat-Control-1-0-EU-Council-forces-messenger-scans-via-fast-track-11353659.html
124•stavros•4h ago

Comments

stavros•4h ago
Please email your members of parliament: https://fightchatcontrol.eu
wronex•2h ago
So what platforms will this apply too? What platforms Dow sit already apply too? All SMS, large email providers (Gmail?), WhatsApp, Apple services?
donmcronald•7m ago
There have been a few incidents that make me think Snapchat private chats are monitored. The one with the guy joking to his friends about blowing up a plane or something is the first that comes to mind.

Tell me how private messaging gets you taken off a plane otherwise. It’s not private. Big tech has put a camera and microphone in everyone’s pocket and they’re monitoring everything.

The government and big (American) tech are very likely lying to us IMO. How will anyone protest when mass surveillance becomes the law if it’s already in place and you can be labeled a bad actor that gets your life ruined if you dissent?

vb-8448•2h ago
> Although the Council emphasizes that the *scans will be limited to the absolutely necessary extent* and that no general, indiscriminate surveillance will take place

I'm 100% sure that this is the case and about the good intentions of the proposers.

/s

sunshine-o•1h ago
At that point it has become clear to most Europe is not a democracy anymore. It has lost any legitimacy.
rixed•20m ago
At the end of the day, regimes do not depend on legitimacy but on force.
superkuh•1h ago
The same as every other fascist control measure. Voted down. Voted down. Voted down. Then forced through through some obscure mechanism bypassing the will of the people and becoming law forever.
petcat•1h ago
Am I crazy or is this website not allowing me to opt out of cookie tracking unless I sign up for a subscription?

I know the EU cookie banners have basically ruined the internet, but this seems like a whole 'nother level of obnoxious.

stavros•1h ago
Wow, yeah, that seems... illegal, no?
wronex•53m ago
Im pretty sure it is illegal. In my understanding, it must be equally easy to reject and accept. And the website MUST continue working under either choice. Which is not the case here.

I think the lawmakers should have made all forms of tracking illegal instead. That would make law writing and following easier. And closer to the spirit of what they are trying to accomplish and what everyone wants (except you Silicon Valley O.o)

esafak•1h ago
You Reject the undesirable ones (all!) and click Agree to Selected.
SahAssar•37m ago
On these you usually can't reject them. It says

> Data processing by advertising providers including personalised advertising with profiling (Consent required for free use)

em-bee•36m ago
doesn't work, they don't let you unselect anything. you have to accept everything or pay.

very frustrating because especially a tech magazine like heise should really know better

sph•58m ago
This is democracy manifest. What a joke.
stavros•55m ago
We have been enjoying a succulent Chinese meal.
MichaelZuo•37m ago
It is a bit strange why EU countries allow their own credibility and legitimacy get steadily dragged down, bit by bit, by all these thousands of dubious statements, tricks, manoeuvres, and so on.

Do they just not care about weakening their own societies?

rckt•32m ago
The govs consist of people who have their own agendas. Mass surveillance is something they all are aligned on.
graemep•20m ago
Much the same reasons why the UK, US etc. do much the same. It is slowed down a bit in some countries with strong constitutions or resistance to it, but the governments all want it.
mdp2021•7m ago
> "You have to understand that times have changed, it's not like before... Now we have children, the children, the children, children, children and the t-word."

~~ keir starmer

(I'll see if I can still find the source. If anybody beats me to it, appreciated.)

mattrighetti•43m ago
They're not going to stop, are they?
stavros•40m ago
It certainly seems like they'll stop after they pass it.
mdp2021•39m ago
Do also see:

# Italy warns against Chat Control mass surveillance, but votes in favour of it (digitalcourage.social)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48783340

Do, because already there nuances (towards the better or worse) are revealed, which are not evident in journalism as we have it. The whole story needs more investigation than the stubs.

But the way they are managing it in the workflow does not seem too linear...

stavros•33m ago
"We are in favour of this law, so long as it is not used for its intended purpose."
mdp2021•26m ago
You should elaborate. And explain what you understood as "its intended purpose".

My understanding of the vote last Friday was about protracting the 2021 temporary compromise (scan voluntarily until we have a full law), which was suspended at the beginning of April. It is not clear how they proceeded that way. It seems some vertices imposed that they would not accept a legal vacuum there. So, it's not a "law". What ran for the past five years was an "exception to privacy laws" (I am not informed of the mandated guardrails).

m132•25m ago
The central bank, council, and commission have to get thoroughly investigated. The amount of questionable decisions coming from those three in the recent (15) years is extremely unsettling. The parliament and courts are practically the only institutions preventing things from hitting the fan at this point, and struggling to do so, it seems.
kingleopold•7m ago
they dont investigate themselves, I hope you understand those details some day.
junto•5m ago
I’m convinced of widespread corruption here. We need to follow the money. Who is funding and pushing this agenda to blanket spy on all Europeans? I guess my question is rhetorical.
mdp2021•16m ago
What frightens me is, as usual, the assumption of conformism that may just remove people from services.

"Present a document" // "No, certainly not to you" // "Do without then"

The straight will say "no", but their lives will be extremely complicated, possibly in the unawareness of those that just take compliance to the absurd for granted - as the weak call survival paramount and cannot see that their modus is subjective. That we won't have it is something that they cannot even conceive. Adults are noise to them.

kingleopold•7m ago
it will %100 pass at some point. no way around it.
mdp2021•5m ago
The problem is /what/ will pass. What is this clothing limit? Pink, shocking, lime? Long sleeves, above the wrist or below? In the city center, in the suburbs, where?

The issue is all in the details.

And in the decision process, before that, of course.

SilverElfin•6m ago
Governments don’t work for people. Yet they use terms like democracy all the time. The repeated attempts at chat control are so blatantly anti civil rights but also disrespectful of democratic principles. Why do EU citizens tolerate this? Are they okay being made a fool of or is this just not an issue for them after all?
buzer•59m ago
It's called "pay-or-okay" (or "consent-or-pay") and there hasn't been many decisions on it yet which has led noyb to sue German DPAs: https://noyb.eu/en/years-inactivity-pay-or-ok-cases-noyb-sue...

There is one case where DPA ruled in favor of the company, but it's currently being appealed: https://noyb.eu/en/pay-or-ok-der-spiegel-noyb-sues-hamburg-d...

Another one ruled against company and court agreed: https://noyb.eu/en/court-decides-pay-or-okay-derstandardat-i...

netsharc•57m ago
When they force that, it's an invitation for me to open it in an incognito window. Track all you want, assholes!
bayindirh•29m ago
Try the demo on this site: https://fingerprint.com/demo

Both in incognito and normal modes. I bet you'll get the same fingerprinting ID in both.

So yes, they can track you in incognito mode, too.

m132•30m ago
This is what made me disable JavaScript by default in 2018. I didn't even get this banner.
pmontra•27m ago
You are correct. Reader mode on Firefox shows the full article though.
GuB-42•14m ago
Very common on EU news websites.

Workarounds include:

- reader mode

- "behind the overlay" extension (and others like it)

- archive.is

- probably many others

SpicyLemonZest•17m ago
I guess I'm not sure what's dubious here. The article says they're circumventing "democratic control bodies", but I don't know what that means (perhaps it's a more common phrase in German?), and it sounds like the European Parliament can still vote to reject Chat Control if they don't want it. The article strongly implies there's something dubious going on here, but to me what would be dubious is a procedure that prevents the parliament from voting on Chat Control.

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