I want to replace my Lithium home battery, and what I really want to do it to move to one of the new sodium ion batteries..e.g like the one CATL is supposed to have at some point?
Anyone have a good idea when these will be available for consumers?
XorNot•44m ago
Why would you replace it? That asset likely has at least 10 years in it if you already have it.
syntaxing•9m ago
Probably operating temperature and safety.
rapsey•27m ago
Why? You also need to replace your inverter in that case.
hunterpayne•22m ago
Hopefully never. If they ever do, it means the local government truly doesn't care about you anymore.
Na is basically Li times 30. This is good in that they make really effective batteries. This is bad in that when the battery malfunctions, the energy is released at 30x the rate. So remember when that Telsa caught fire and the driver walked away very scared but ok. If those were Na-ion, they wouldn't be ok...or alive...or recognizable as human. Basically, these are far too dangerous for consumer use. And any grid scale battery will need about a mile of gravel around them to prevent any fires or deaths from explosions.
xbmcuser•13m ago
What bullshit are you spouting sodium batteries are safer and do not have the same thermal runway concern that lithium batteries do.
rcxdude•10m ago
What? All the data suggests that sodium ion batteries are safer than lithium ion batteries: it is harder to set them into thermal runaway and they are less violent when they do so.
chewbacha•6m ago
Pretty that’s just not true.
Sodium ion batteries are less energy dense than lithium ion and are not prone to dendrite formation. They are also more thermally stable and less likely to do thermal run away reactions.
Also, since they are less energy dense they don’t store the same potential energy.
You are probably thinking of metallic sodium batteries which are completely different.
cyberax•18m ago
Na-Ion batteries are not practical for home storage right now. They have a much higher voltage range compared to LFP batteries, so regular inverters and chargers will not work reliably. Nothing insurmountable, but the supply chain is just not here.
Na-Ion cells are great for grid-scale storage because they potentially can go down to something like $20 per kWh. But bulk LFP cells are already at ~$60 per kWh, so their cost is not really a deciding factor anymore.
tootie•52m ago
> Peak Energy is buying its commercial cells via contracts with Chinese suppliers
So really just assembly and sales then. I suppose it's a good start and maybe if business takes off they can figure out their own cells.
Brybry•11m ago
Yeah, I had questions when Kurt Kelty was saying that Peak's battery was "kicking butt" after the article said Peak is still building their battery factory and currently buys its cells from China.
Is GM testing Peak's cells or some Chinese company's cells?
TwiztidK•45m ago
My company operates two Jupiter Power owned LFP batteries in the MISO market. Each of them draws .5 - 2MW constantly for the HVAC system. If the cost for sodium batteries is similar to LFP, that alone would be a reason to switch.
cyberax•34m ago
Keep in mind, we could have had local Na-Ion battery production in the US. The company producing them needed about $5m of bridge loans, with products already sitting in warehouses awaiting the UL certification.
This company got sold for scrap.
petcat•32m ago
your comment would be more interesting if you actually provided any details at all
Its a failure in the U.S. because the bet is on solid state batteries. Personally I won't take the EV plunge until they have those. The only exception for me to not wait would be the 10k BYD car. At that price point and it lasted 3 years i'd be happy.
otterley•26m ago
This is for grid storage, not EVs.
hunterpayne•17m ago
Nobody in their right mind would put Na-ion batteries in an EV. The lawsuits would never stop. It would be worse than Asbestos lawsuits.
rcxdude•3m ago
The energy density of sodium-ion means it's not exactly the favored option for EVs. They make more sense for grid and home battery applications.
SubiculumCode•52m ago
Anyone have a good idea when these will be available for consumers?
XorNot•44m ago
syntaxing•9m ago
rapsey•27m ago
hunterpayne•22m ago
Na is basically Li times 30. This is good in that they make really effective batteries. This is bad in that when the battery malfunctions, the energy is released at 30x the rate. So remember when that Telsa caught fire and the driver walked away very scared but ok. If those were Na-ion, they wouldn't be ok...or alive...or recognizable as human. Basically, these are far too dangerous for consumer use. And any grid scale battery will need about a mile of gravel around them to prevent any fires or deaths from explosions.
xbmcuser•13m ago
rcxdude•10m ago
chewbacha•6m ago
Sodium ion batteries are less energy dense than lithium ion and are not prone to dendrite formation. They are also more thermally stable and less likely to do thermal run away reactions.
Also, since they are less energy dense they don’t store the same potential energy.
You are probably thinking of metallic sodium batteries which are completely different.
cyberax•18m ago
Na-Ion cells are great for grid-scale storage because they potentially can go down to something like $20 per kWh. But bulk LFP cells are already at ~$60 per kWh, so their cost is not really a deciding factor anymore.