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Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

https://w4g1.dev/blog/models-are-getting-dumber-on-purpose
76•hruvhwe•1h ago

Comments

kaufmann•22m ago
I think the idea is reasonable, however the SimpleQA Bench stopped measuring in Sept. 2025.

So newer data would be interesting.

(It seems a bit like an AI generated argument that uses old facts - something that happens to me quite often)

Gecko4072•21m ago
With all the focus on coding and agentic use, I wonder if the rest of the world will notice or care? Most AI use is not for coding or harnesses contrary to what this website thinks. Maybe this is how American companies stay winning.

For example I prefer Kimi K2.6 1T parameter to Flash V4 0731 230B parameter, even if it is less intelligent.

kennywinker•18m ago
What is the rest of the world using LLMs for? Agentic stuff seems pretty universal. Obviously coding stuff is only interesting to people who want to code, but automating complex digital tasks seems useful in all kinds of contexts.
Gecko4072•15m ago
Learning new things for example, general curiosities, text processing
Espressosaurus•15m ago
I’m working at a company where everyone is using LLMs for everything and I’m not aware of anybody using anything truly genetic. It’s all human in the loop babysitting the tool.
ismael_rr•12m ago
I agree that most AI use in terms of users may not be for coding or agentic use (everyday people are asking chatgpt for something or looking at google ai summary), but with respect to AI usage, I speculate that the vast majority of usage is coding and agentic because they're super token hungry.

In terms of the value proposition of AI replacing knowledge workers, all value is in coding agents (coding agents as general agents).

kennywinker•19m ago
Ideally what I'd like to see is pluggable knowledge bases.

So if I'm e.g. coding a SwiftUI app for navigation, I'd take 9B of basic coding and reasoning, add 10B of swift/swiftUI, add 5B of GIS/geography knowledge and another 5B of frontend app design knowledge. My model doesn't need to know a single line of python.

Then when I want to research electronics components, I grab a 15B model of agentic research techniques, and add in 10B of electronics knowledge, etc.

I don't want general purpose models. They try to be everything to everyone. I want to click together a model that is laser-focused on what I am doing, and I want to run it locally

Gecko4072•18m ago
Sounds like unix philosophy. Or like Neo downloading Kung-Fu. Good either way.
goodmythical•12m ago
everything is a token
jagged-chisel•5m ago
There is no token
jvuygbbkuurx•16m ago
If that is better (and possible) it will be baked in the tools. But is a model that doesn't know python better or worse at swift is what I wonder.
locknitpicker•14m ago
> So if I'm e.g. coding a SwiftUI app for navigation, I'd take 9B of basic coding and reasoning, add 10B of swift/swiftUI, add 5B of GIS/geography knowledge and another 5B of frontend app design knowledge.

Aren't you describing RAG or even MCP servers? Heck, nowadays you get that also with agent skills and specialized tool calling.

stefan_•19m ago
I hope there is interesting research being done to stop models from 9B to 3T from authoritatively giving the wrong answers to factual questions instead of doing tool calls, but this article will tell you nothing about it. That's because it's clearly prompted by someone who simply noticed this deficiency very obvious to all practitioners and even users.
ismael_rr•9m ago
In my experience, it feels like this problem has been mostly solved. When I interact with a chatbot, I see it often uses web search to answer my questions and hallucinates much less then they used to. Furthermore, I suspect a lot of gains are merely from the system prompt instructing the chatbot to use web search to verify all facts it says.
msdz•16m ago
Great article.

> There's a version of this future where the model card stops listing a knowledge cutoff at all, because what's left in the weights goes stale on a scale of years instead of weeks.

Future?

Even just recently I’ve read of two approaches to this problem:

Cactus have come up with Needle [0][1], which is their tool-calling focused 14 MB model (still an LLM!) – no world knowledge engrained.

And instead of say, tool call structure, VibeThinker [2][3] focuses on reasoning over world knowledge.

Combine these two approaches with a reliable search tool/a safe way of accessing the internet for the model, and you’ve got a probably slightly slower model for factual questions, which on the upside however doesn’t hallucinate.

[0] https://cactuscompute.com/needle

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49246804

[2] https://arxiv.org/abs/2606.16140

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48639240

kennywinker•14m ago
That kind of setup is super dependent on a search engine, and search keeps getting worse.
msdz•6m ago
Generally I agree, with two caveats/thoughts:

Providing not just any a baseline, but a correct and useful one, is ever more important the less the model is grounded in world knowledge – misunderstandings probably compound faster if there is no general grasp of (broadly) “life on earth”, or computers, or whatever.

And secondly, I think (consumer-oriented) search becoming worse and worse is a challenge that’s mostly solvable (but far from solved!) for the big labs: (Mostly) trusted or even editorialized/reviewed sources like published work, Wikipedia, etc. is something they could index internally, it doesn’t need to come from a random blog site on the public internet. Furthermore, there’s a whole slew of companies specializing in crawling-for-LLM (i.e., bypassing bot protections) now as well.

Animats•13m ago
This makes hallucination detection more important.

There's no reason that an LLM should have a vast number of obscure facts encoded. It can go out to a search engine for such facts. But the LLM has to be clear on what it doesn't know.

(Google's pricing for search from programs starts at $2.50 per 1,000 queries. If an LLM reaches out to Google, it has to pay.)

gorgmah•11m ago
> Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

I know is editorialized, but a more accurate title to this content would be either :

Models Are Getting Ignorant on Purpose

or

Models Are Getting Less Knowledgeable on Purpose

gagan2020•9m ago
Intelligence vs Knowledge

LLMs work is being intelligent not having knowledge of everything is ok. But, they have to be intelligent enough (with some degree of knowledge) that where to find the information (search tools or any other tools for that matter)

hypfer•7m ago
Man, both that Blogpost and some comments here read like science-fiction.

Specifically, creative writing driven by nerds dreaming about a future, without proper grounding in reality, constraints and all that stuff.

Which is kinda ironic given the topic. And also important to do, because we should keep dreaming. We should just also be aware of when we are doing that and mark it as such.

pulkitsh1234•2m ago
But is Reasoning and Facts truly separate ?

To reason properly about the human condition (eg. World War) wouldn't you need to reason on some facts ? And then reason how some "facts" change the human behaviour ? How can you arrive via pure reasoning to predict how a collective of humans act ? We are not reasonable, humans are not logical deterministic machines confined to algebraic rules.

kennywinker•6m ago
I don't think so?

Definitely not MCP, as that pulls info into the context. Unless contexts become REALLY big so that I can add 10B in swift knowledge, that's not gonna help me.

Possible RAG? I don't know enough about how that works, but I think that's not quite it either. I don't want to import facts like "the swift standard library contains a reverse array function", i more want to import knowledge - e.g. the parameters used to generate the text to reverse an array in swift.

Tool calling wouldn't do it either. You'd have to encode every single possible bit of useful info into the tool call, and the tool response would have to encode every piece as well (variable names, function scopes, types defined in other files, etc). E.g. how does it find a bug, if you have to pass understanding back and forth between the brain that understands debugging and the brain that understands THIS code?

edgyquant•11m ago
This would defeat the AGI narrative/belief that so many building these models have
scld•7m ago
On the otherhand, your own brain probably doesn't use your eyes to hear.
E-Reverance•6m ago
Would it? AGI was always about the efficiency gains of versatility, not strictly all forms of efficiency
cyanydeez•5m ago
AGI is whateve rmakes the VC open their wallet.
kalb_almas•7m ago
I would love this but I think the General Reasoning and Make No Mistakes modules would be massive.
gopalv•5m ago
> I want to click together a model that is laser-focused on what I am doing

This is roughly what multi-agent systems are built for.

This is possible with models too, but "making one on the fly" is much easier with agent coordination rather than model weights, since they all speak the same language.

There is an IBM Mainframe vs Google Distributed system division here. Like Seymour Cray said - two oxen or 1024 chickens.

Chickens are harder to harness, so a lot of my work is in sled-dog territory for agent harnesses & command structures.

conartist6•2m ago
This is going to be how I write my resume now: how many billion parameters of knowledge I have on each topic
cyanydeez•3m ago
the technicals of search did not get worse. the economics of the search provider did. If government wasn't stuck in the 50s mindset, search provider would have been nationalized just like a utility.

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