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Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn45vdxyvvlo
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Open in hackernews

Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn45vdxyvvlo
83•tosh•1h ago

Comments

ktallett•48m ago
It's a hard one. I feel the UK were wrong to leave but Norway and Switzerland have a fantastic overall quality of life without and I'm not sure the benefits of membership unless you are financially poor country. Iceland is probably better off joining the Schengen but not EU.
ChocolateGod•47m ago
It's already in the Schengen.

Iceland already heavily integrated into the EU, the only outliers are currency, foreign policy, security, political institutions, customs and some trading sectors like fishing.

Currency (since the exchange rate to the Euro is what sets pricing in Iceland) and security are the reasons many want to get closer.

yvdriess•45m ago
Iceland already is Schengen
earthnail•44m ago
The Norwegian PM said to Britain back then “don’t repeat our mistake. We need to, in practice, follow all the EU’s rules and don’t get any say in it”
mrec•23m ago
Important to clarify: IIRC that comment was about Norway's EEA membership. The UK is not an EEA member.
magicalhippo•19m ago
That's because the PM's party brokered that half-way deal with EU against the will of the people, after they had voted no to EU for the second time[1].

Not saying some of our export companies aren't enjoying the access to EU, but the people was against it.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Norwegian_European_Union_...

SahAssar•19m ago
Except in areas of fishing and agriculture. Especially fishing they really care about, just like iceland.
adamtulinius•43m ago
Iceland is already a member of Schengen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
spiderfarmer•43m ago
It's a bit different with fishery as the backbone of your economy vs. oil, minerals and banking.
troupo•42m ago
Norway and Switzerland are in the EU in all but final signatures ar this point: they are fully ibtegrated into EU economy, apply EU's laws and regulations and even pay into EU funds.
kuboble•30m ago
Speaking of Switzerland - no it absolutely is not.

Is far from being fully integrated into EU. You have to pay customs on shipments, which can be delayed for weeks on borders.

You need to apply for the residence permit and you can lose it for trivially sounding reasons. - E.g. lying on the application which could mean " you mentioned in the application you wull look for job but lied and went to learn the language instead". - also look at the recent case of a woman and her daughter abused by some Swiss politician facing deportation because she moved to Switzerland for work officially, but in reality she moved to live with her Swiss romantic partner.

Switzerland still have bottles of water without permanently attached lid.

It's integrated in many ways but still far from being a member state.

bsian•13m ago
They should have considered not lying in their residence permit applications. I mean, what you are saying sounds like completely reasonable reasons to deport someone. They lied because they knew their application would’ve been denied had they said the truth.
p2detar•41m ago
Yes, these are bad examples. Norway - rich beyond belief due to its energy resources. Switzerland - rich beyond belief because of its developed banking sector. Not sure how Iceland stacks up here. Fishing will be an issue for them, no doubt here.
Jtarii•41m ago
Market integration is a good thing.
m132•40m ago
Iceland is already part of Schengen, EFTA, and NATO. They're in the best position there is, having negotiated the best the EU has to offer but not the bad parts, such as the Euro, Pfizer deals, the migration and asylum pact, or age verification. I can't imagine them joining the EU being anything but a massive downgrade for them.
snowpid•36m ago
Euro would be a bliss for unstable Islandian currency. Actually Euro is used by the yes camp.
f6v•38m ago
> Norway and Switzerland have a fantastic overall quality of life

Well, one sits on vast amounts of oil and the other has been doing some dodgy financial stuff for very long time.

> Iceland is probably better off joining the Schengen but not EU.

It irritates me so much how some countries get to pick and choose. It's just ridiculous how some countries refuse to join Eurozone. The UK used to be in the EU, but wasn't part of Schengen. Now it's not part of anything, but is still in Horizon Europe?

hdx19•37m ago
Norway gets all the money it wanted from offshore gas, and Switzerland from being the bank of Europe when world wars happened (not mentioning gold nor laundering). When money is handed down to you like this by geography or history, the benefit of joining the eu and paying more for others is probably not given for the population.
bArray•32m ago
> I feel the UK were wrong to leave [..]

Whether it was the correct decision or not, it was done via a democratic vote. Now the leaders of the UK look to entangle the UK into the EU structure that is evidently against their mandate.

exceptione•29m ago
That mandate has quite changed, even more when you look at the non-retired cohorts. Reintegration with the EU will take plenty of time.
snowpid•29m ago
The majority of UK inhabitans wants to rejoin the EU. It is indeed democratically legitime.
flaburgan•18m ago
Democratic vote which has since then been proved to be heavily influenced by the Cambridge Analytica campaign, so which probably did not reflect the actual opinion of the population. It was a manipulated vote.
vidarh•16m ago
The vote was to leave or stay - there was no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU before even considering how drastically opinions have shifted since.
nayroclade•13m ago
The current UK government was also elected by democratic vote, so they have a mandate that postdates the referendum.

You can argue their mandate is invalid due to the first-past-the-post system, but in that case the original decision to hold a referendum, and all subsequent governments that negotiated the terms of the EU exit are also invalid, since they all derived from first-past-the-post elections.

exceptione•31m ago
In practice, these countries implement already a lot of EU law. It isn't that difficult for say a Switzerland to join the EU and they have good reasons to, as access to programs like Horizon is a huge benefit. The economies of these countries are quite interwoven with the second largest economy of the world. The EU market comes with rules but is is a very big win for neighboring countries. In fact, Switzerland backtracking on previous accession tracks and thus not qualifying anymore for Horizon etc is causing some serious regrets, so I won't be surprised if Switzerland bites the bullet somewhere in the future.

Secondly, the world got a lot more unstable since the US is pushing for a lawless might-makes-right world and taking an increasingly predatory posture there. From that perspective, the EU is becoming even more relevant. Poignant example is Canada taking more and more steps to integrate their economy with the EU, as well as to become part of its security architecture.

ajsnigrutin•6m ago
Why do they need the Horizon programs? Switzerland is a rich country, in any pan-EU project scheme, they'd pay more than they'd get back.
spiderfarmer•48m ago
With the state of the world right now they can probably get a very good deal.
bilsbie•47m ago
How many migrants would they be required to bring in? How many new cookie banners would their websites get?
earthnail•45m ago
Leaving didn’t help the UK much regarding migration, did it?
suslik•40m ago
A necessary condition is not always sufficient.
hdgvhicv•32m ago
It increased migration, and switched it from culturally and historically aligned Europeans to culturally different African and South Asian.

Exactly as “project fear” predicted.

znpy•29m ago
It was a great idea, poorly executed.

Uk picked the wrong kind of migrants to let in. Should have let in Europeans no questions asked, and instead let in poor people from poor countries that turned it into a failed nation.

As an european i can tell you the uk is not as appealing as it was when i was a teenager.

mixdup•19m ago
I guess they'll just have to live with your disappointment
croes
ekidd•45m ago
> The No campaign fears losing control over Iceland's prized fishing grounds under the EU's Common Fisheries Policy and has vowed never to share the country's waters with anyone. Brussels has indicated Iceland could earn some kind of exemption, but it is considered potentially the biggest obstacle to any agreement.

As noted in the article, Iceland's fishing industry makes up something like 40% of their exports. Which is the only way a tiny island nation can afford essential imports. On top of that, Icelandic fishing is apparently carefully regulated to prevent overfishing, with the result that it is supposedly one of the few truly profitable fisheries in the world.

So maintaining control over their own fisheries may be a survival-level issue for Iceland.

On the other hand, they have a tiny population, no ability to defend themselves, and membership in the fraying NATO military alliance. So I can see why they're debating this issue. Aligning themselves more tightly with Europe doesn't fix their problems, but I can also see not wanting to go it alone.

glimshe•39m ago
They export good music too (Bjork and Sigur Ros)!
sscaryterry•34m ago
The best part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest:_The_S...

(Edit: This is obviously a joke!)

chicken-stew•8m ago
And games.
Semaphor•
apples_oranges•39m ago
The arguments that some put forward against the eu are as educated as the people declaring fiat money a scam back in the Bitcoin hype phase.

While there are reasons not to join, most commenters against it have no clue what they are talking about.

OKRainbowKid•21m ago
> The arguments that some put forward against the eu are as educated as the people declaring fiat money a scam back in the Bitcoin hype phase. > > While there are reasons not to join, most commenters against it have no clue what they are talking about.

Indeed! As I just learned in this comment, the EU is about to collapse and Iceland would be stupid to board an already sinking.

Makes me wonder where these commenters get their information about Europe/EU from, and whether these comments are a projection of either ignorant or ideologically motivated animosity towards the EU.

znpy•33m ago
I hope whatever they do they don’t adopt the euro as their currency.
pavlov•32m ago
Joining the euro is a hard requirement for new countries entering the union.

The only negotiable is the length of the transition period.

jochem9•30m ago
New joiners are required to eventually adopt. Only members that were so before the Euro are exempt.
amunozo•26m ago
Have you seen how bad is the Icelandic crown, their prices and their borrowing rates? Adopting the euro is one of the main arguments in favor of joining the EU.
jonkoops•14m ago
The Euro is actually one of the reasons they want to join; even their prime minister stated it explicitly. It would be a more stable currency than their own.
znpy•27m ago
Btw this referendum is about starting the talks, not about joining or not joining.

If the result is “yes” then a proposal with all terms and conditions for joining will be written down, and the Icelanders will vote again on whether to accept those terms and conditions or not.

phatfish•10m ago
Sounds like the way a certain referendum to do the opposite should have been run.
mixdup•21m ago
It seems odd to hold a referendum on holding talks. Why not just negotiate an agreement and then hold a referendum on that agreement?
coldtea•13m ago
Because if the people don't want to join in the first place, why hold negotiations to begin with?
mixdup•10m ago
Polling would be good enough I would think here, do a poll and if you're within 10% of a majority being in favor, just do it and then let them decide on the final agreement. Be public with that stance so that the EU and the population know that the public will have the final say and we (the gov) aren't trying to railroad this

Maybe in a country the size of Iceland it's not as big a deal to run an election but it seems like a lot of work for what is just an advisory vote

coldtea•5m ago
It's not a big deal given the major decision regarding even considering losing most of their national soveregnity to one of the most incompetent bureucracies the world has ever seen for hardly any upsides that they can't negotiate individually as a sovereign country.
dgellow•13m ago
Because you’re in a different position to negotiate if you know you have the support of the population? That’s my intuition at least
ajsnigrutin
hndbwksam7•5m ago
Been burned by this exact thing before
dgellow•10m ago
The vote wasn’t binding and had a low turnout. Not really a good example to point to for democratic voting
phatfish•1m ago
It wasn't binding so the normal procedure and checks around a referendum could be ignored. Like disenfranchising the British citizens living in the EU.

Democratic indeed...

•
42m ago
> How many new cookie banners would their websites get?

How many user data do they track?

Otherwise cookie banners aren‘t necessary

plaguna•42m ago
How many devices with replaceable batteries will they get to own?
gildas•38m ago
How many years before you understand what cookie banners are?
6m ago
Including a very healthy metal scene, Martröð (50 % icelandic) and Nexion were recent favorites of mine.
theragra•5m ago
Meh, too pop. Hildur Guðnadóttir!
cyberpunk•1m ago
check out solstafir too!
lukan•37m ago
Iceland doesn't even have a military at all.
boxed•35m ago
And yet they defeated the UK navy several times :P
Y-bar•3m ago
They can easily implement a large no-fly zone across Europe, as demonstrated with Eyjafjallajökull in 2010.
boxed•33m ago
It's an existential threat not just to Icelandic economy but probably to the entire Atlantic ecosystem as a whole.
dgacmu•31m ago
Those not familiar with it might find the history of the Cod Wars interesting (and very relevant to this discussion): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

(literally, Iceland having several decades of slightly-military-involved conflict with the UK about fishing near Iceland. Iceland won.)

mytailorisrich•29m ago
Despite what you might see a lot in the media lately the EU is not a military alliance and has explicitly no involvement in the military. So joining the EU is irrelevant on these issues.

The article mentions that sovereignty is a big issue. It should be because joining the EU means giving that up so that, I think, is the really crucial issue they should be thinking long and hard about (including, indeed, with respect to fisheries).

snowpid•26m ago
EU is indeed a military alliance. They are just no integrated command structures but this is common among most military alliances across the world.

SAFE credits are an EU military thing.

broken-kebab•5m ago
The mutual assistance clause doesn't oblige member states to support each other with military force even in case of aggression. A member can send blankets, food rations, or even just express diplomatic solidarity. Stretching definitions enough one can call it military alliance, but it is not in any practical form.
MrDresden•29m ago
> "Iceland's fishing industry makes up something like 40% of their export."

That number includes everything involving the fishing industry, such as equipment manufacturing. The size of the actual fishing and value-addative processing is often reported to be closer to 12-15% as a share of GDP.

I say this as an Icelander who voted yes in this vote, but would vote no next time if any deal would lead to us loosing control of our fisheries or having worse management policies pushed on us.

edit: spelling

amunozo•26m ago
I think the EU should make an exception, which also could draw Norway closer.
Nursie•25m ago
This was not argued well during Brexit (what was?) but it was an issue there. As much as Brexit didn’t fix anything for, I do believe the EU operates far too much in the interests of fishing boats and far too little in the interest of conservation and realistic fishery management.

So I think Iceland is right to be wary.

masfuerte•18m ago
Yes. Ten years ago mackerel was cheap and abundant but the quota was set in excess of scientists' recommendations. Stocks are dwindling now (surprise!) and mackerel has gone from cheaper than tuna (for a tin) to nearly double. It's absurd.
stavros•22m ago
Why would we (as an EU member) want Iceland to compromise on such a vital issue, though? I understand that it's simpler to have common regulations among all members, but when theirs works, why mess with it? It sounds unreasonable.
Beretta_Vexee•6m ago
One of the factors leading them to reconsider EU membership is monetary policy. The Icelandic króna is a very small currency that fluctuates considerably. Switching to the euro would protect them from exchange rate risks with their main trading partner.

One solution for Iceland would be to join the eurozone without becoming a member of the EU, as Kosovo and Montenegro have done. However, this would only be desirable if there really is a deadlock over fishing rights.

•
10m ago
What agreement? To join the EU you must change a lot of internal structures in your own government first, a lor of regulations must be changed to align with EU versions, laws have to be changed, even basics, like drivers licences and other documents.

Why spend millions if not billions on all that, impose laws that are maybe bad for normal people, and then figure out that people don't actually want to join the EU?

mixdup•9m ago
You would hold the confirmatory vote before you do all of that. You'd go to the EU, agree what joining looks like, and before doing any of the actual implementation you hold the vote
thih9•7m ago
I guess one does not “just negotiate an agreement” for something like this.

And perhaps two referendums and working incrementally is wise in general, given the mess that was Brexit.

mixdup•4m ago
But that is quite literally what they are going to do. They're asking the public if they should try to join the EU. If yes, they will negotiate an agreement with the EU. Once the government has agreed a path forward with the EU, they'll then have another vote and if yes they'll actually sign the agreement and join the EU, if no, it ends there and they don't join

This first vote isn't committing the country or population to anything