So as of today, I’d certainly buy electric if I was worried about depreciation.
Depreciation will slow down when the rate of improvement slows down
It currently costs 85p/kWh to charge an EV near where I live if you can't charge at home, and 95p/litre for gas (my car is dual fuel).
Then you've got the vastly more expensive insurance for EVs.
Then you've got the cost of paying for an EV.
Then you've got to find an EV that directly replaces the existing vehicle. There are currently no EVs on the market that can tow heavy trailers off road, which is the main reason I have a biggish 4x4.
Performance being pretty high on even a basic Tesla doesn't help things either. The insurance market in the UK is very expensive anyway and any excuse to wind up premiums they'll gladly use.
It still often ends up a bit cheaper across comparable vehicles but not a slam dunk and nowhere near as good as the headline suggests.
Breakdown of UK Public/Private and EV/ICE Per Mile Costs:
* Home (Off-Peak EV Tariff): ~3p per mile
* Home (Standard Standard Variable Tariff): ~8p per mile
* Standard Public EV: ~15p per mile
* Petrol Car: ~17p per mile
* Diesel Car: ~17.5p per mile
* 50kW+ DC Public EV: ~22p to 23p per mile
All it took was destruction of global energy markets and supplies.
Let’s celebrate!
For example, an EV is both undoubtably cheaper to operate than a gas powered car ; and infinitely more expensive to operate if you can't afford to buy one in the first place.
Similarly, the price of kWh of PV-generated electricity is both lower than pretty much everything else as this point ; and, basically infinite when the sun is down and your 4h battery has run out.
Is there a proper math concept to fairly express those things ? "Mean", "Average" or "Median" fall short. Mean with very very large error bars ? "Average with substitution" ?
In the end, I can't wait for all those circumvoltions to be irrelevant (when EVs are just cheap to buy too, and electricity has enough storage to bake it into the price, etc...)
Also, if you do not have a home charger, you are very unlikely to come out cheaper than petrol. I think 40p/kwh is about the breakeven
All this kind of spin does is turn people who were on the fence, off electric. Just treat people like adults and say "whilst there are still lots of reasons to prefer a traditional car, electrics are the future, and here's something that shows the progress".
Previously (last year) various taxes made almost half the fuel price. We don't have green/car taxes where i live, everyone charges their cars at home and brag how 'cheap it is'. Additionally you can drive in bus lanes if you drive EV (capital only) and you have the perfect nepotism scheme - no taxes, premium transit for anyone already rich enough. No politician dares to bring this up as solution would lead to the introduction of general car tax (political suicide) so once again everyone else is left to pick up the bill after the rich.
You can get a mint condition IONIQ 5 with 300bhp and 20-minute charging for less than a new Corolla.
Used cars still take a full fuel tank.
I'm in the UK and have now gone completely electric - motorbike (Zero SRF), car (wife's Model 3) and van (ID Buzz). To be honest though, that was mostly because I like EVs - yes, even the motorbike. The fuel costs are just a bonus.
> Dacia Spring is now the UK’s cheapest car at less than £12k
> The all-electric Dacia Spring now costs less than any other car on the market
https://www.whatcar.com/news/dacia-spring-is-now-the-uks-che...
The article has an honourable mention for the Leapmotor T03, another EV that is only slightly more expensive than the Dacia Spring.
If we compare, for example, the Tesla Model 3 (RWD) against the BMW 3 series (320i), then we get:
NL: Model 3 ~€36K vs 3 series ~€50K UK: Model 3 ~£37K vs 3 series ~£41K
In both countries the Model 3 is more expensive than that the 3 series.
Second hand the maths can change again, since EVs typically depreciate faster, due to battery degradation fears, and the fact that range on newer cars is always improving, but still, typically for a four year old version of the above, the Model 3 is still cheaper than the 3 series.
There is, of course, the discussion on whether it is fair to compare a model 3 with the 3 series, but it is often used, so I'll go with it.
If you want to compare cheaper cars, then you could compare a Ford Focus with an MG4 EV, and in the UK the EV wins, in NL, the Gasoline car wins, but in both cases, they are more price comparable.
MG is a British car badge, now owned by SAIC China
Volvo and Polestar are owned by Geely
LEVC makes the new EV London black cabs, is also owned by Geely
XPeng and Omoda are present too.
I have had my side mirrors and windshield repairs covered.
Presumably because (at least round here) they're driven by retired guys who are simply not capable of staying in front of a 700bhp gokart that gets to 60mph faster than if you threw it off a cliff.
Of all the rapid charging networks, I find Tesla are often the cheapest, there are Tesla 250kW charging stations near me that are 33p/kWh during quieter hours.
I usually charge at the super market (60KW) for 44ct / kwh which is not cheap but much more reasonable.
For comparision my employer offers charging at 23ct and my home price (from the grid) would be +-30 if I could get a charger there
The EV was definitely the right choice, due to luck rather than knowing Trump was about to kick off with Iran. It costs us £8 to charge the car overnight for around 380 miles range.
Honest question: how else would one interpret 'cheaper to drive', if not 'cheaper per-mile operating costs'? Wouldn't they have used plain 'cheaper than' if they would have meant 'purchase+operating'?
Oil changes, break pads, oil filters, spark plugs, …
For whatever reason, my wife’s car needs yearly scheduled dealership visits that always cost a few hundred. Meanwhile, my 5 year old EV has had none of that, other than one of those recalls that required a technician to park 15 minutes on our driveway to tighten some bolt (which my wife car also had, but it took another visit to the dealership.)
The depreciation thing is true, but I drive my cars into the ground anyway, so it’s not a factor for me.
It's worse, there's almost no second hand market for the vehicles. There is barely anybody trained to repair them (even if they will sell you the parts) and if they are crashed significantly it's almost always a write-off.
> It still often ends up a bit cheaper across comparable vehicles but not a slam dunk and nowhere near as good as the headline suggests.
Only because of government meddling. Fuel is almost uniquely taxed 3 times, which pays for subsidies to pay for green energy initiatives.
I think I'll hold out with my diesels and petrols and see how this all goes.
No longer true at least in most decently urban/semi-urban Western countries/regions.
The parts shortage is real though, it's always been a plague for Tesla, and most established manufacturers never really recovered from Covid (and in the case of wiring harnesses, Ukraine) as a lot of their supply chain closed down shop for good.
> and if they are crashed significantly it's almost always a write-off.
That's true of all modern vehicles, no matter the engine type. Crash resiliency comes at a cost, the frame absorbs the crash energy and permanently deforms. Yes you can bend even an aluminium frame back into shape but it will never be as strong as before, and anything carbon-composite or plastic is out of the question as well.
The cheapest car for sale in the UK is an EV at this point. The market is rapidly filling with EVs in essentially all price segments. Most EVs are still under warranty when they hit the second hand market for the simple reason most EVs on the market were produced in their typical warranty period.
Quite possibly China and many other countries.
(edit) There's a comment further down, cheapest car in UK is EV: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49875856
Why do you think Tesla insurance is that high?
The problem is that, for economy of scale reasons, Comprehensive insurance is often cheaper than third-party cover in the UK, despite people tending to never claim so as to keep their no-claims bonus and not spike their premium out of affordability. With 3rd Party the EV option would be cheaper as they tend to be involved in less accidents, and when they do they tend to dissipate more impact on their side due to more modern crumple-zones and safety features.
Is it the same in the UK?
Recently they started builing a truck charging facilty on the outskirts of town.
spiclk•1h ago
One-tenth the (fuel) cost, or 90% cheaper.
(That is, if you own a house with off-street parking).
consp•24m ago
spiclk•20m ago
consp•37s ago
My main point is that even with happy hour prices this is only viable for people which do not have to rely on external chargers, which is the majority.