So did they, they just left it for the conclusion
> It’s not clear whether AI giants like OpenAI and Anthropic, or the AI industry in general have gotten too big or too important to fail, but Character’s bankruptcy shows that the runway for second-tier players is over.
But the current title definitely baits more people into the article
Perhaps it's more that "consumer startups that want to become a unicorn" are hard.
Kind of speculative, and a very bold speculation at that. I don’t have anything else to say, but one company that was obviously mismanaged doesn’t really get my attention.
A simple grammatical mistakes like this should have been caught on review/edit phase.
Either that or writers are relying too much on AI.
(Edit: fixed a grammatical mistake. See?)
It’s capital intensive, doesn’t easily scale without linear costs, is basically a commodity, seemingly has negative cashflow forever, and customers aren’t willing to pay what it actually costs. It’s basically the worst tech business model and yet somehow VCs caught a spell and threw every available penny into the fire.
Watching this all unravel is going to be interesting.
What are some VC funded companies that come to mind that do not fit this profile?
A better report would have been how the Economics of AI Wrappers Don't Work.
Character.ai was likely paying frontier LLM API rates (which are known to be ridiculously expensive at 90% margins) and then had their own R&D plus lawsuit overhead. Most people can use a $20 Claude or ChatGPT sub to build a completely custom Character.ai. Once Character.ai employed MBA Strategy #3 (aka enshittification), churn killed the company (as it should)
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What doesn't work is attempting to build an AI Wrapper. Those companies had a good run 2022-2025, but with how good both open weights and cheap frontier models have become, AI Wrappers can no longer demand fat margins.
I'm sure people will now argue what exactly AI Wrappers are in the comments below, but for now I'm more interested in understanding what the HN hivemind's take is on the topic as a whole.
[0]: https://blog.character.ai/optimizing-ai-inference-at-charact...
Is that known?
It is difficult to make a company in a fast-growing sector work when all of your technical staff and leadership are working for Google, and your remaining staff can see the writing on the wall and are checking out.
Significant investment is being spent on producing hardware that is more suitable for running mid-sized (100B-ish) models. Starting with flash chips with wide enough interfaces to provide the weights (NAND flash can be ~5x more energy-efficient for reads than DRAM), and going into more exotic solutions like compute-in-memory.
toomuchtodo•52m ago
nemomarx•45m ago
DoctorOW•38m ago
quxbar•36m ago
sublinear•32m ago
Specifically with regard to AI, the consumers aren't even aware of the "grocery store" either. They're being served from a silver platter. What matters most is the quality of results, not the methods. You can disagree all you want for whatever (good and compelling) reasons, but it doesn't change the fact that many people do not even buy groceries now and doordash everything.
If it turns out that you can put a mobile kitchen in their backyard that cooks up everything without them realizing, it makes no difference to the consumer.
Realistically, yes there's a finite amount of training data, hence the plateau in capability we've seen for at least a year. I think we're likely to see a consolidation and compression of all of this into local models. The economics don't support the expected growth of the current arrangement either. There simply isn't that much distinct data out there as initially assumed.
tripleee•34m ago
No-one's going to want to talk to a 7B model for more than 3 minutes
toomuchtodo•28m ago
My assumptions are that inference costs continue to decline (and/or the difficulty level of routing requests declines) and hardware acceleration continues into the future. These assumptions might be wrong, but that is the idea the thesis is based around.
(have built workflows and harnesses that currently target LLM provider APIs under the assumption I'll be able to point "locally-ish" eventually, my career had a strong focus on distributed computing about 10-15 years ago, think managing data and work clusters for LHC detector data processing, and I grew up on hobbyist distributed.net and BOINC projects, all the lenses I see this problem through; queues, jobs, sync vs async performance optimization, etc; recovered sysadmin|infra/devops engineer a lifetime ago)
reactordev•26m ago
toomuchtodo•21m ago
Tuna-Fish•22m ago
sc68cal•24m ago
toomuchtodo•24m ago
Durable storage + sufficiently performant local LLM hardware + appropriate models [last two are wildcards and hard to predict the forward curve imho] = this experience locally. Remember when mobile video hardware acceleration wasn't good? And now, it is very good.
sc68cal•17m ago
toomuchtodo•14m ago
> Character.ai's Bankruptcy Documents Show the Economics of AI Don't Work
My comments:
"I don't agree, here is why."
This specific model doesn't appear to be economically sustainable and/or commercially viable. That is a reasonable statement and assertion, based on the evidence presented. Does not mean the economics of AI in general do not work. That's a very broad statement! Nuance, words mean things.
Therefore, we should ask ourselves and discuss, "Under what circumstances could|would the economics work? Are there any? Or are there none?" We are discussing the problem space! Be more curious.
jghn•6m ago
"eventually" is doing a lot of work here. Like sure, yes, eventually. But that could be later this year or it could be 50 years from now. We don't know the answer to that. Assuming it's going to happen in a timeline short enough to matter for this conversation isn't worthwhile. It's like saying eventually we'll have cold fusion, so why is everyone skeptical?