Sad story in this case. The cockpit audio was quite chilling.
But yes, that's a lot of kinetic mass dead-stopping on a hard surface and 1 to 2 kiloliters of jet fuel.
A lot of them are designed to explode before hitting the target for maximum damage.
Its not surprising at all that the jet makes a huge hole in the ground. Jet fuel is more energetic than RDX, while converting that energy slower. So both the chemical and kinetic energy is much higher with the jet then with a russian cruise missile. If anything the crater is surprisingly small.
Highly recommend anyone reading to not make the same mistake
1. The so-called coffin corner [1] where the minimum safe speed for aerodynamic lift and the speed where the plane will stall narrows to a dangerously narrow window. This is caused in part because the speed of sound decreases at high altitude. Turbulence can throw you out of this window; and
2. It seems likely that control was lost because of ice. In released ATC recordings (which are awful to listen to, be warned) the pilot mentions ice. This is likely because of the bad weather over south Florida right now.
The pilot requested a new flight path and I believe tried to ascend from 35,000 feet to 37,000 feet and ended up in a spiral, banked at ~60 degrees, descending at ~30,000 feet per minute, crashing into the ground.
I'm not a pilot but I suspect there will be some element of this that is pilot error or at least could've been avoided and/or mitigated by an experienced pilot.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_corner_(aerodynamics)
In the pictures, the flaps appear present but not extended. If they had been extended they would have ripped away at that speed. And they would not have been able to lower them after the overspeed began. I think the answer is in the control system. One or more control surfaces were doing something other than commanded.
Some images seem to indicate a loss/absence of the horizontal stabilizer, but it is hard to tell AI from real these days.
https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/674728-lear-60-...
At 30fps, I make that somewhere in the region of 1000mph.
(I thought ATC's cool as a cucumber 'altitude your discretion' was 'interesting' – presumably a formality they need to offer to clear the aircraft, since clearly no discretion was involved.)
Once the aircraft entered the conditions inside the storm, between the turbulence, icing, and up/down drafts it was likely an unrecoverable event.
In contrast, the coffin corner doesn't really have anything to do with this the plane would have been operating at standard enroute altitudes and speeds.
For context, I am in fact a pilot. I've read a little about what people are saying about this accident, but I've absolutely no new information or unique insight whatsoever.
IANAP but the mention of precipitation points to conditions that could overwhelm anti-icing systems, which the Learjet was equipped with.
christophilus•1h ago
kzrdude•1h ago
embedding-shape•1h ago
If there is, seems they're deep under the ground as it nosedove straight into the ground and essentially disappeared, the crater showed almost no debris at all. People been guessing on reddit that everything just got "instantly pulverized" which I doubt somewhat, the shape of the frame is perfect for it shooting into the ground so I'm guessing they'll spend some weeks digging and eventually find the wreck.
Edit: Since I can't respond to my children:
> This kind of impact in fact has tendency to turn aircraft into powder
How often? A similar crash that comes to mind is https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/06/05/dc-... where they did recover actual bodies, even if the impact was near-vertical and seemingly faster than this case.
What specific cases are you thinking about where everything "instantly pulverized"?
p_l•55m ago
DoneWithAllThat•47m ago
kzrdude•40m ago
TheOtherHobbes•29m ago
TheOtherHobbes•32m ago
The crater shows the road was destroyed. Aircraft skins are much thinner and less robust than road coverings.
wickedsight•30m ago
Well, just looking at the article, I see trees, which tend to slow things down and can cause a plane to break up.
giarc•1h ago
elorant•34m ago
nradov•57m ago
p_l•57m ago
shadowgovt•43m ago
In this case though, it sounds like the icing was much worse than they thought and fatally compromised the aerodynamics of the wings, and then the overspeed would have torn at the wings and fuselage... In that circumstance, you're no longer flying a plane, you're riding a javelin.
Training would generally still encourage the pilots to apply power; in the worst-case scenario (here), failing to apply power would not have made the crash survivably slower, so the sum total of best bad actions is still "Apply power and hope you're not in the worst-case scenario."
Xenoamorphous•41m ago
throwup238•34m ago
jetrink•28m ago
balderdash•14m ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_tuck
ajross•27m ago
My gut says this is a sudden icing incident. Folks are pointing out that they appear to have flown straight into the center of a cell at altitude. A developing thunderstorm is MUCH warmer than the surrounding air, because the water condensing out of the rising/cooling mass buffers the temperature (due to heat of fusion). It can even be supersaturated ("higher than 100% humidity") if this happens fast enough. The water vapor is just desperate for a nucleation site to condense on.
So you have a situation where a metal jet body that is maybe 30C colder than the medium suddenly flies through this soup. It can ice over in seconds to minutes, and the plane ends up with bricks for wings and much more weight than it was designed for, and simply can't stay in the air. Then it dives inexorably.