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Show HN: The King Wen Permutation: [52, 10, 2]

https://gzw1987-bit.github.io/iching-math/
20•gezhengwen•3h ago
I analyzed two orderings of the 64 I Ching hexagrams and found the permutation cycle decomposition between them is [52, 10, 2] with zero fixed points. Nobody has done this kind of analysis before and this cycle type has not been reported in the literature. You can verify it yourself.

Comments

gezhengwen•3h ago
I found this by accident while analyzing the I Ching with code. 81% of hexagrams are locked in one chain, none stays in its original position. You can verify it yourself in the browser. Has anyone seen this before?
dmos62•2h ago
Fascinating. I've barely any knowledge of I Ching. What motivated you to explore this and I Ching in general?
gezhengwen•1h ago
The I Ching has influenced China for over 3000 years. I believe there must be a reason for that. In China, the I Ching is often treated as mysticism. But I believe in science. The end of mysticism must still be science. So I did a lot of research and found a unique pattern inside. I searched all the literature and found nothing about it. So I shared it here.
chordbug•2h ago
We truly live in an age where facts that are worth "maybe one sentence of space on Wikipedia" can be expanded into full-blown AI-coded interactive websites. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I think in this case it ascribes an inappropriate sense of grandeur: making a mathematical curiosity (and is the result even that surprising?) seem like some deep truth has been unveiled, or we finally found God's Number.
thaumasiotes•2h ago
> and is the result even that surprising?

No.

The exposition has its problems too. Consider:

>> Zero fixed points — not a single hexagram occupies the same position in both orderings. The structural difference is total.

As a mathematical matter, the expected number of fixed points for any permutation is 1. Some have more. For some to have more, others must have less, and all of those will have 0.

But as a logical matter, "the structural difference is total" is pure gibberish. Consider these two permutations on 5 elements:

    1. [2, 3, 4, 5, 1]
    2. [5, 1, 2, 3, 4]
"Not a single element occupies the same position in both orderings."

But of course these two permutations have a nearly identical structure (they are rotations in opposite directions, and are each other's inverses); they are far more closely related to each other than either is to

    3. [4, 3, 2, 1, 5]
even though permutation 3 shares the assigned position of "3" with permutation 1, and the assigned position of "2" with permutation 2.

Then:

>> We reframe the question:

>> Transform the question "what is the structural distance between two orderings"

>> into the mathematical problem "what is the cycle structure of a specific permutation in S₆₄?"

This is nonsense. The 'question' cannot be transformed into the 'problem', because they are completely unrelated ideas. It's like transforming the question 'what is the Levenshtein distance between two strings?' into the problem 'if a specific string were in alphabetical order, how would it be pronounced?'.

gezhengwen•45m ago
You are right, zero fixed points does not mean total structural difference. Your counterexample is good. My wording was wrong, I will fix it. What interests me is not the statistical rarity, but that 81% of elements are in one orbit — this means the reordering is highly coupled, not a bunch of small local swaps.
Someone•1h ago
> and is the result even that surprising?

Not as far as I can tell from skimming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_permutation_statistics.

gezhengwen•41m ago
You are right, the presentation may be overdone. The result itself is a small mathematical fact. I made the interactive page so people can verify it themselves, not to make it look grand. Thank you for the criticism, I will adjust.
casey2•1h ago
Random shuffles usually have a big loop
gezhengwen•42m ago
You are right, the expected largest cycle of a random permutation is around 40. 52 is larger but not extreme. I did not claim this result is statistically significant.
busfahrer•33m ago
Does cycle here mean the same thing as what Carmack used in Wolf3D to randomly fill the screen with red pixels without any of them repeating?
gezhengwen•4m ago
Yes, it is essentially the same mathematical concept — both are cycle decompositions of permutations. Carmack used a permutation to ensure every pixel is visited exactly once.

Show HN: The King Wen Permutation: [52, 10, 2]

https://gzw1987-bit.github.io/iching-math/
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