Vedanta-Foxconn, Adani-Tower, and now Zoho all collapsed because of questions around market viability. Sure, India has a large domestic market, but that is not reason enough for business consumers to buy Indian, nor is it a large enough market on its own. Semiconductor markets require global-scale markets, something the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese were able to break into with years of copying Western aesthetics.
India thinks it can be the market leader for the developing world's semiconductor supply, but when it comes to chips, the whole package counts, not just bare functionality. With all of the world's electronics manufacturing in either China-Japan-Korea, and others in Europe, India has a very limited consumer base for chips to be sold to.
which should point to the gov't that their problem is a lack of a consumer base! And they ought to engage policies to increase this consumer base.
But i dont think that's being done, from what i can see.
There are some companies that are working towards that end though, but they still have quite a long way to go. And a lot of native manufacturers in India have faced financial issues, so that's another hurdle.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_design [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93computer_interac...
Take IFB for instance - it's a native heavy duty home appliances manufacturer in India. Their product is solid and resilient, and in many cases better than their Western equivalent, like Bosch (which I must add is going downhill). You literally get a Miele quality product at a much lower price (30-50%). Yet they lose out to the more "namebrand" companies because the UX is something that would pass for in the 2000s.
TIL IFB is an Indian company
When did Zoho collapse? It is privately held and seems to be worth over $10B [1]
I find Vembu being quite annoying these days with all his statements and comments, but all his companies (Zoho has many, like ManageEngine) are doing well.
Deciding that one new business is not viable is not a collapse.
[1] https://www.ndtvprofit.com/trending/top-10-bootstrapped-comp...
Take it in context. All the listed are semiconductors projects. As companies, I'm sure Vedanta, Foxconn and Adani are doing very well.
No, I don't get it either. There's no synergy whatsoever.
He was looking at setting up a fab with a $700 million investment. I don’t know what that would have bought them.
[1] Not reserved
build chip plant, ???, profit!
https://www.wired.com/story/22-year-old-builds-chips-parents...
Then he started a company called AdventNet which created network management software. They had a product called ManageEngine, before starting Zoho.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sridhar_Vembu
>In 1996, Vembu, along with two of his brothers, founded a software development house for network equipment providers called AdventNet.[7][9]
So there is some connection to chips, at least, plus his educational background could incline him to be interested in this area.
[0] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/11/tech/india-foxconn-exit-v...
The govt has schemes which will refund up to 50% of the investment. Unfortunately the way these schemes are implemented, unless you have the money upfront, you can’t even start.
In short, it’s a reimbursement after some months/years, not a grant or investment.
My guess is 28nm is already an aging node, and by the time any fab based on it becomes operational, the technology will be even more obsolete. It’s hard to predict what the market will look like then. You can't expect a private company to pour billions into a dicey market.
This is a case where free-market capitalism doesn’t work. You really want a government pitching tens of billions of dollars to get to the cutting edge fast, not expecting companies to foot the bill and just dangle a few incentives.
Frankly, for India, the entire semiconductor ambition feels like putting the cart before the horse. It won't create jobs, most value will be captured by fab owners. The smarter approach would be top-down: start with component assembly, then build up CNC machining, injection molding, and other foundational industries that can fill in the gap for components. Only after that should we talk about high-value semiconductor manufacturing.
India lacks even the most basic manufacturing. We import stuff like lighters, toys, and basic electronics. Why do we want to make the giant leap to semiconductors?
Unfortunately, Indian policymakers are more interested in optics than in long-term industrial planning.
India and other countries are not going in fab for jobs but for self-reliance.
Going for high-value semicon later is similar to the logic of removing poverty first before investing in space tech. It doesn't work that way.
India had sound policies it was quite ahead of time when it created SCL, check this video for more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBYV6QWDIo it does lacks execution though and had some bad luck.
India does have 130nm plants right now its obsolete node but works fine for low volume needs of its govt.
Now we’re 14 generations behind.
Jumping to 28nm would be progress, especially for mundane devices which go into automotive and white goods.
that's why the investment is 700 million. its an aging node but a lot of product included military hardware doesn't require more than 28.
The general public forgets that old nodes are the vast majority of what's made in fabs.
Cars, most appliances, military, etc all run on old nodes. They're not running cutting edge stuff. Desktop PCs and gaming stuff is nothing compared to the reliable bulk orders that last years for a car line or a line of washing machines.
Completely false or misinformed.
India has been doing many different kinds of manufacturing for many years.
A few google searches and some of their results, not in any order:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industry_in_India (a big one)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industrial_corridor...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Manufacturing_compa... (another big one)
industrial manufacturing in India Wikipedia
https://www.ibef.org/industry/manufacturing-sector-india
AI Overview:
+4
India has a significant industrial manufacturing sector, contributing heavily to its economy and global trade. Key areas of manufacturing include textiles, steel, automobiles, pharmaceuticals, and electronics. The country has the world's second-largest steel production and is a major exporter of textiles and clothing. The "Make in India" initiative aims to boost manufacturing growth and create jobs.
Major Industries and Their Importance:
Iron and Steel:
India is the world's second-largest steel producer, with major players like SAIL and private companies like Jindal Stainless and JSW Steel.
Textiles:
India is a major exporter of textiles and clothing, with a strong domestic textile industry serving both local and global markets.
Automobiles:
Chennai, Pune, and the National Capital Region (NCR) are major hubs for automobile manufacturing.
Pharmaceuticals:
Hyderabad and Bangalore are key centers for pharmaceutical manufacturing.
Electronics:
The electronics sector is experiencing growth, with government initiatives to promote domestic manufacturing.
Other Key Industries:
The Indian economy also features significant manufacturing in areas like cement, paper, and petrochemicals.
India's elites incl. the ones HN folks are likely to run into are products of the old colonial education system - one that ensures that only the micro-minority of English-speakers (~5%) are able to ever get any decent level of higher education. People don't realize that there's very little "pull" for Indians who escape this system and "win" the game they're playing viz. to climb the greasy-poles of the (Pan-)Anglosphere.
It strikes me that quite a bit of the caste-system narrative is basically a coded/symbolic version of what the neo-colonial system currently has in place. Ironically, going by the reports of East-India Company, the hated pre-British "Hindu" India seems to have been a far more equitable place.
The current BJP government in the centre is probably the most powerful one in the history of modern India as far as political power is concerned. But look at the statements the Finance Minister makes: [1]
> "The question should be how much it takes for me to convince the ministry and the boards. It is not so much about the PM. The PM was very clear that he wanted to do something. It was for the ministry to reach a comfort level and then proceed with the proposal,"
They are trying to "convince" the bureaucracy instead of ordering them to get on with the program. No wonder these projects do not succeed.
This scourge of bureaucracy extends to wherever the government has a vice-like grip on a particular sector (like banking). Here is a case of a non-profit that digitizes manuscripts (eGangotri) struggling to access the grant it has received from the government: [2]
> As most patrons know Ministry of Education had most kindly chosen us for a IKS grant but with a very limiting condition and in my opinion over-bureaucracy to only allow ICICI Bank as the Chosen Partner and this has turned a nightmare for us.
India succeeds in services because most of the ten thousand-odd permissions you require to set up a manufacturing unit do not apply. You try to start a physical plant and see how many people you have to pay off before you can succeed.
The legal system is so slow that the government's own projects can be blocked by filing nuisance cases in random courts and tribunals. Private businesses have no hope in hell.
Without police reform, judicial reform and bureaucratic reform, we will keep chugging along. Always underachieving.
[1] "PM quickly got behind tax cut, bureaucrats took convincing: Finance Minister" https://www.indiatoday.in/budget/story/union-budget-nirmala-...
[2] Frivolous and Presumptuous Banking Services of ICICI Sec-50 https://egangotri.org/2024/12/04/frivolous-and-presumptuous-...
There is a famous quote attributed to some post-Independence India bureaucrat that I forgot the name of, which went something like "if we are to prioritize efficiency against representation, we might as well have just accepted British rule." India had to choose between strong economic development or plebeian representation, and it chose the latter. This is the consequence.
methuselah_in•12h ago