Maturity implies that, while I might retain a right to be a dickhead, everyone (including me) would be better off if I put on my big-people pants.
Beside just repackaging your point, though, there is tremendous power to be had in setting oneself up as a gatekeeper.
The power to regulate where the line is drawn on just how free speech can be is a gateway drug to tyranny.
Thus, the concern is less the speech itself than the tyranny begotten from regulating the speech.
Such heavy-handed, draconian laws give ammo to Holocaust deniers.
I would rather them having imaginary ammo by being punished for it.
David Irving had a great opportunity to make his case .. he failed several times over:
The court found that Irving was an active Holocaust denier, antisemite and racist, who "for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence".
There was a time the lab leak covid theory was hate speech, people were calling people racists for mentioning it. Sometimes simply stating statistics can get construed as hate speech.
I'm sure there's other good examples, but at the end of the day it just creates a bar for those trying to silence a topic to reach.
Holocaust denial is not hate speech. People should be allowed to question a historic event. People should be allowed to think.
dismissals from the administrative classes only inflame it. we are anticipating similar speech laws in canada to prevent resistance to a commitment by the new PM to double the national population within 14 years (5% annual immigration compounding).
the message from the EU and the networks behind these policies elsewhere reduces to, "resistance is hate, citizen" and they're trying to move fast enough to get ahead of the growing sentiment for a just war of defence they know they are starting with their erasure of national cultures.
i wouldnt underestimate the impact of these laws and the efforts behind them or the reaction that has been building.
I wonder if the Irish would have still decided to join the EU, if they had known the EU would then write their speech laws.
But in reality yea, the EU is essentially at the articles of confederation stage of the US. The EU has been flexing its muscles with what laws they can enforce on their members, and I'd expect the eventual EU army to be the turning point where people start to realize the EU election is likely more important, or at least equally important, as their local elections.
(Another pair is Sweden-Germany)
If a soap-box preacher preaches out loud "adulterers should be stoned to death" or a Nazi holds out a banner saying "death to blacks and jews", is that protected? Even in trump's america, that is protected and we value that dearly. How does hate speech work in Europe, do they really forbid people from speaking their minds entirely?
The distinction in the US as I understand it is that those speakers did not make specific or elaborate plans to incite violence, they mere shared or tried to spread their unpopular beliefs, and that is protected and their right. But if the preacher said "let us stone those prostitutes to death" or the Nazi said "Let us kill the blacks and jews in our city" that is a threat of violence, a very serious felony.
I am just trying to understand the distinction here, because if those people are not free to simply share their views without inciting or threatening specific acts of violence, then I would deem Europe a dangerous place to visit for anyone that aspires towards original and critical thinking.
America should just copy whatever Europe does for the next decade.
lokar•1h ago
snapplebobapple•1h ago
lokar•57m ago
defrost•1h ago
Criminal Justice (Hate Offences) Act 2024 : https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2022/105/
It appears, by my very brief skimming, to cover issues raised in the article here but is seen as light on the Hate Speech aspects ...
So .. Nuremberg style rallies (speech alone) are currently fine in Ireland but criminal in the EU?With mosque burning, synagogue grafitti, shop front smashing in the {X} neighbourhood, etc. criminal acts in both IE and the (non IE) EU.
lokar•42m ago
“… public incitement to violence of hatred …”
How does that work as English?
fakedang•36m ago
Capitalized the primary nouns in each phrase. Basically inciting people into hatred of a particular group, with violent connotations such as burning places of worship, etc.
Noumenon72•12m ago
It matters, too, because my suspicion is they want to punish hatred as though it were violence.
LodeOfCode•15m ago
Animats•2m ago