This is just too uncomfortable. After the EU pressured a reset of the Romanian elections, after the ban on LePen running, and so on, it feels like European democracies are set on creating certain outcomes while calling it a defense of democracy. If you’re focused on banning candidates or parties, or on eliminating speech / access to speech, you aren’t a democracy. But you’re also going to cause an escalation in response rather than actually suppressing the people you want to ban.
And given that France arrested Durov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_indictment_of_Pavel...) and is now allegedly offering “assistance” with his case in exchange for cooperation in censorship, this is all getting very messy and looks bad. Curious what the other side of the story is.
sleepyguy•4mo ago
Russia has reportedly spent over €200 million influencing elections in Moldova. Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán is said to control assets worth $ Billions $ in the poorest country of the Eurozone. Pictures of his $500 Million dollar estate with Zebras and many African animals litter the Internet. Meanwhile, some British MPs have even admitted to accepting Russian bribes.
Moscow has effectively built a “fifth column” across many European nations. Without decisive government intervention, they risk successfully undermining democracy across the continent. Russia has a long history of such tactics, and it has perfected the art of political manipulation. Just look at the corrosive effect of money in politics in the United States—Donald Trump, for example, would sell out the entire country if it meant more money for himself and his allies.
What’s alarming is how few people in the West understand that they are already engaged in a full-scale information and influence war with Russia and its allies. Most citizens remain unaware of the scale and sophistication of this threat.
SilverElfin•4mo ago
Is influencing is just speech, why have a problem with that? What makes it different from groups of activists doing the same thing within a country? It’s all propaganda to some, or free speech to others. I agree it’s an “influence war” but disagree that a foreign source changes things at a basic level - even from within the same country, brigading and bot like voting or comments, corrupts the process of politics. So I disagree about the choice to violate free speech principles. But do you see it differently? Do you agree with the part about activists behaving similarly?
tomschwiha•4mo ago
Free speech ends when it conflicts with the law or the rights of others - for example, the right to make a free voting decision. Spreading fake news or knowingly lying is not free speech, but rather an abuse of the term.
u8080•4mo ago
>Free speech ends when it conflicts with the law
This is exactly what happens under totalitarian governments - status quo people in power erode freedoms by tweaking laws.
psychoslave•4mo ago
Turning it the other way around makes more sense: freedom of one starts where it confirms those of others.
sleepyguy•4mo ago
Did you not see the weapons caches and the Russian agents arrested in Moldova? During the Romanian election, the opposition leader — a TikTok star — was reportedly found with a massive cache of weapons and ammunition in his personal residence. This kind of activity is happening across Europe. Russia has no limit to the lengths it will go to meddle in other countries’ politics. They create sabotage groups, carry out assassinations, and more. This isn’t about free speech — it’s about taking over governments. Just look at what happened in Georgia with the Dream Party.
It's unbelievable how ill informed or outright ignorant folks are about what Russia is trying to do.
jacquesm•4mo ago
Or maybe they're part of the problem rather than ill informed or ignorant. I definitely would not rule that out. It's a fine line between malice and high degrees of incompetence or stupidity. Sometimes the latter two are just fig leaves for the former.
psychoslave•4mo ago
What proportion of the population would you expect to have deep interest in geopolitics? To get a relevant level in it, as for anything, citizen would need dedicated resources. Many Europeans citizen already have many alarm signals regarding their socio-economical faith at their narrow individual level. Even if US and Russia were not actively working both at destroying it with all the means they have without direct military confrontation, its own political oligarchy is already doing a fantastic job at destroying it at the macro level.
What do you think European average citizen should do to make its future actually cast a shiny prison prospection?
maximinus_thrax•4mo ago
> After the EU pressured a reset of the Romanian elections
Citation needed. Romanian elections have been cancelled due to a proven hybrid warfare waged by Russia. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/16/romanian-prosecutor.... The guy is a nutjob who lied about his campaign financing while his people were planning an armed insurrection. He wasn't the only 'cancelled' candidate, the whole election process was proven as corrupt and was repeated.
Do you have any sources about the EU pressuring the Romanian court system to cancel the elections?
rsynnott•4mo ago
> after the ban on LePen running
Can't even steal millions of euro anymore without being criminally prosecuted; it's political correctness gone mad!
Like, what do you want them to do, say "okay, you stole four million euro, but that's okay because you're a very special politician"? That would seem to set an unfortunate precedent. There _are_ countries who seem to often take this approach (notably the US), but, ah, it doesn't seem to work that well.
Sarkozy was also criminally convicted, FWIW (for corruption, multiple times); this isn't France being being mean to the ol' Nazis. They're just okay with prosecuting politicians generally. It's a substantial list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:French_politicians_co...
rasz•4mo ago
The _Visited Russia More Than 50 Times Since His “Exile” in 2014_ Durov? The _claims he was poisoned in 2018, but chose "not to tell my colleagues so I wouldn't scare them"_ one? The _left UK for Dubai a day after the Skripal poisoners left London for Moscow_ Durov?
SilverElfin•4mo ago
And given that France arrested Durov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_indictment_of_Pavel...) and is now allegedly offering “assistance” with his case in exchange for cooperation in censorship, this is all getting very messy and looks bad. Curious what the other side of the story is.
sleepyguy•4mo ago
Moscow has effectively built a “fifth column” across many European nations. Without decisive government intervention, they risk successfully undermining democracy across the continent. Russia has a long history of such tactics, and it has perfected the art of political manipulation. Just look at the corrosive effect of money in politics in the United States—Donald Trump, for example, would sell out the entire country if it meant more money for himself and his allies.
What’s alarming is how few people in the West understand that they are already engaged in a full-scale information and influence war with Russia and its allies. Most citizens remain unaware of the scale and sophistication of this threat.
SilverElfin•4mo ago
tomschwiha•4mo ago
u8080•4mo ago
This is exactly what happens under totalitarian governments - status quo people in power erode freedoms by tweaking laws.
psychoslave•4mo ago
sleepyguy•4mo ago
It's unbelievable how ill informed or outright ignorant folks are about what Russia is trying to do.
jacquesm•4mo ago
psychoslave•4mo ago
What do you think European average citizen should do to make its future actually cast a shiny prison prospection?
maximinus_thrax•4mo ago
Citation needed. Romanian elections have been cancelled due to a proven hybrid warfare waged by Russia. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/16/romanian-prosecutor.... The guy is a nutjob who lied about his campaign financing while his people were planning an armed insurrection. He wasn't the only 'cancelled' candidate, the whole election process was proven as corrupt and was repeated.
Do you have any sources about the EU pressuring the Romanian court system to cancel the elections?
rsynnott•4mo ago
Can't even steal millions of euro anymore without being criminally prosecuted; it's political correctness gone mad!
Like, what do you want them to do, say "okay, you stole four million euro, but that's okay because you're a very special politician"? That would seem to set an unfortunate precedent. There _are_ countries who seem to often take this approach (notably the US), but, ah, it doesn't seem to work that well.
Sarkozy was also criminally convicted, FWIW (for corruption, multiple times); this isn't France being being mean to the ol' Nazis. They're just okay with prosecuting politicians generally. It's a substantial list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:French_politicians_co...