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Economics of sportsbooks and why they ban the best bettors

https://www.dopaminemarkets.com/p/the-business-of-sports-betting-is
29•_1729•1h ago

Comments

Retric•1h ago
A great argument for banning the industry.
vkou•1h ago
Or at minimum, banning advertising for it.

If people want to gamble, they are free to look for a bookie, if people want to buy heroin, they are free to look for a street pharmaceutical sales representative, but neither should be allowed to manufacture demand for their poison, or hand out free samples.

> In 2022, Washington Post reported a bettor Beau Wagner who bet $1,000 and won $50,000 on an NBA game. He tweeted a screenshot of his winning bet, and DraftKings reposted it with the caption, “BEAU KNOWS BETTING”. However, a day after his successful bet, his betting limit was severely restricted to a grand total of three dollars and sixty three cents. DraftKings used his win as an advertisement to lure new, unsophisticated bettors to the platform, but they shut down the very bettor they were advertising.

Absolute scum.

dgfitz•1h ago
I enjoy sports gambling. I’m sure people reading this won’t believe me, but I am “up” about 47% over the past 2 years, which is when I started. I’m good at it and I have a system.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, they need to ban advertising, as they did with tobacco. The amount of commercials and adverts is nauseating, the industry is predatory, and I’m having serious thoughts about stopping because of that.

lokar•1h ago
They could (in addition to banning Ads), require them to take bets from anyone not banned for misconduct by some neutral party.
throwaway422432•21m ago
Agree with the banning, problem is they are major sponsors of a lot of sports which would then need to find alternatives for funding.

AFL (Australia) is one with very embedded sponsorship from SportsBet.

Even the voting group for the Norm Smith medal (best on ground in the Grand Final) has someone from SportsBet on it.

bfg_9k•57m ago
I don't think they should ban it, but they shouldn't be allowed to ban good bettors.
apercu•53m ago
Maybe regulate, not ban, or it just goes back underground.
jimt1234•49m ago
Reminds me of when I was a teenager and Denny's banned me and my other hungry, teenage friends from eating at their "All you can eat" buffet. The manager was at least transparent about it, telling us we were literally eating his profits for the day. LOL
crazygringo•24m ago
Why?

You haven't made any argument.

And lots of industries ban unprofitable customers. All-you-can-eat restaurants will ban customers who eat/take absurd amounts of food, which is unprofitable. Landlords don't rent to prospective tenants who have a history of not paying rent, which is unprofitable. Every major retailer will ban you if you return too many items too often, which is unprofitable.

So why would betting be any different? Banning highly unprofitable customers is normal business practice across many industries.

There's a reason we call it the free market rather than the forced market. Businesses aren't forced to transact with individuals (unless they are discriminating against specific protected classes like race or gender).

efavdb•1h ago
I had thought bookies set the odds so that half of incoming bets were on either side. They don’t care which outcome occurs and just take their cut either way. I guess at low volume it’s hard to find that optimal spot and this is what results in losses.
vkou•1h ago
There's more to it. Even if the sports-book functions as an exchange, holding ~zero stake in the outcomes, they still want to ban anyone who consistently wins.

That's because if you have a few smart players who consistently win, that means you have a lot of fools who will consistently lose money on the platform - which will drive them away, and impact both betting activity and the spread you collect.

Ideally, you want a bunch of uninformed fools generating huge volume gambling against eachother, while you siphon away spread.

It's a deplorable, lose-lose industry.

lokar•1h ago
AIUI, two other factors are:

the most lucrative (sports) bets are complex and highly unlikely parley bets, betters here naturally tend to all take one side

They want to offer bets on many sports, matches, and specific events that don't get a lot of bets, so they have to take the risk

vkou•59m ago
I mean, yes, obviously being a bookie where you can set a crazy spread on convoluted bets is more profitable than being an agnostic, fair betting exchange - but I was pointing out that even a fair betting exchange has every incentive to kick winners off its platform.
skippyboxedhero•36m ago
The price on most betting exchanges is unbeatable without significant resources (it is set based on Asian books, they will open lines to sharps before betting exchanges list the market).

The price on parlays, with the huge spread, is far more vulnerable because there is no large market for these events. Prices for large events are mostly gathered from third parties, parlays will tend to be priced in-house.

This is part of the reason why bookmakers control who can bet on what on their site. If they opened parlay line with $100k limit to anyone, they would be bankrupted by the end of the day. The purpose of these bets is to create a product that is exciting for customers and is economic for them to provide...but that requires there to be limit on how much customers can bet.

The most profitable product are the handicap markets and point spreads even though the margin for these is usually low single digits. Asian books usually only provide these markets...but the problem is that customers don't like these as much as parlays. The product is entertainment.

lovich•59m ago
> It's a deplorable industry.

If we start decrying every industry whose business model is based on information asymmetry we are going to have a lot of uncomfortable folk on this forum

vkou•57m ago
Perhaps we should. There's no shortage of absolutely predatory behavior out there.
skippyboxedhero•47m ago
This isn't correct.

Asian books (not a geographical distinction but a business model) are not exchanges and they effectively pay sharps to bet with them. This is why betting syndicates exist, they set prices, and the business model of Asian books is to make it back on volume from having the best prices (and before legalisation, these were the biggest books in the world, they did billions every week in handle).

But the business model is different: retail-facing bookies have to win their customer base back every week so they need to spend more marketing. Asian books also do promos but they tend to be one-time (which are cheaper to run), they don't have a non-sportsbook business typically, and they don't comply with regulators.

Exchanges do not drive away sharps either. Their business model is largely about providing an environment for sharps. The only times were that hasn't been true is when a syndicate has owned an exchange (this happened with Matchbook). The exchange provides an incentive to invest for people to invest in price discovery, which happens. There is no way for the business to run without someone being incentivized to discover prices. People randomly gambling against each other isn't a business model.

skippyboxedhero•1h ago
No, it doesn't work that way. Bettors, in this context, aren't price-sensitive so the book is never balanced. There are some tools that bookmakers use to get more balanced - handicap markets - but it still never ends up being balanced if you are a largely retail-facing book.
dgfitz•58m ago
Depending on how the money comes in for a given line, the line will move to account for possible losses for the book. So the odds aren’t just set once, they slide around.

Generally this happens based on how the sharks bet, not dissimilar to how market-makers affect stock prices, as a bad/loose analogy.

ls612•51m ago
This is why the sports books ban so few people. 1% gets thrown around a lot but most places that disclose this say “less than 1%” and it’s likely pretty well below 1%. The sports books like the top 5% who aren’t top 0.5% because those people give them information and information is profit.
dgfitz•46m ago
I have had a suspicion for a while now that my accounts have eyeballs on them. I think you are correct.
dktp•50m ago
Odds providers have their models on how likely each outcome is. They add a spread to this (for example if it's 50/50, they'll pay out 1.8x instead of 2x). The line can also be affected by other factors, like how likely it is one side is oversubscribed. They don't make money on all markets, just most

But if someone has a model that is so significantly better than theirs that it beats the line _and_ spread, they will make money in the long run. Haralabos Voulgaris for example is likely one of the most successful sports bettors. Very interesting guy imo

bluGill•26m ago
They have to compete with others. If the 'good' betters go with you that means you have worse odds that your competition and anyone else who knows goes elsewhere.

the real money is in pools where only a few people bet. however that works best if you get people to bet on the unlikely thing you want to take the other side as you can win more often. Often the unlikely thing is only possible because you take a side - so the savey better is taking away your bets.

fred_is_fred•18m ago
If you don't want to read the article the answer is as simple as you'd imagine. The article however is interesting.

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Economics of sportsbooks and why they ban the best bettors

https://www.dopaminemarkets.com/p/the-business-of-sports-betting-is
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