Yup. 1988 "Moving" staring Richard Pryor had a scene about exactly this. Freedom of contract. Whoever you think you have a contact with will no doubt sublet it to someone else.
Because I also wouldn’t do the leg work to vet a moving company before contracting them. Because I’ve only done the “get a U-Haul and get to it” method.
>Unavailable Due to the UK Online Safety Act
The Online Safety Act imposes new compliance duties on web sites with the potential for staggering penalties. I'm concerned my blog might fall under the OSA's definition of a Part 3 regulated user-to-user service. It might also qualify as a Part 5 service which provides pornography. Unfortunately, Ofcom's guidance for small services has been exceedingly vague.
I don't have the time, money, or interest to set up highly effective age assurance on a personal blog; nor do I care to spend any more of my nights and weekends working through thousands of pages of guidance and writing up risk assessments. I'm geoblocking the UK instead; Ofcom indicates that's sufficient to comply with the law.
Geoblocking is not precise. If you are not in the UK and seeing this message, you can use Tor or a VPN service to access aphyr.com.
There's a lot of uncertainty among small sites regarding what the OSA means and how Ofcom will enforce it. If you run a web site and you're struggling to interpret the OSA guidance, you might want to reach out to Ofcom's Online Safety team at OSengagement@ofcom.org.uk.
I know it's off topic but i think it has some relevance since it shows how this poorly conceived law is actively degrading my experience online, as was predicted here on hn.
I recently learned that the company I work for incurred a delay on a quarter million dollar shipment of computer parts because the courier didn't know we took deliveries on the weekend (normally we don't but for $250k of stuff headed straight for production we did). I said "next time use airport to airport shipping" to cut out the courier altogether. What's another $400 on top of $250k? It's common sense to me.
This was a mentioned, but subtly key point: He wasn't able to turn away the movers due to a rigid move date. (Details unspecified; it begs the question of what would have happened if the movers cancelled, or were unable to get it done in a day)
Can you say more about this? I've never retained an attorney, but it's a skill that I would like to have. What is this process like, to get their services for a short, bounded engagement? How do I get started finding an appropriate provider?
Applies to everything
Find 2 or 3 that are close to your home (It's nice not having to drive 30 min across town to sign or pick up documents) then give each of them a call.
Most will offer a free consultation to hear why you need their services, they offer what they can do for you, or maybe recommend a specialist.
Then they'll tell you their billable hour rate, or retainer fee* for something larger (probate court takes months) to get started.
If the price is right and you feel good about this attorney, then you're all set. Easy and worth every penny.
Reviewing contracts is probably one of those 30 or 60 min deal that might cost you $200-400 depending on their billable rate, but spending $14k on a mover, $200 is a rounding error.
* If there is something of high value, either handle it yourself separate of the movers, or package it yourself if it's too large. Make sure it's adequately insured and take photos.
* If it's a one day job, hiring a crew with a truck is fine. Keep an eye on the crew and the truck throughout the process.
* If it's a longer job, you can rent one or two trucks and hire a crew to load and another to unload at the destination. If everything is boxed, and you have good access to the front door, then a crew of 3 or 4 should be able to fill a large truck in 2 or 3 hours. Unloading goes quicker.
* I've always regretted using PODS. They are small, and I tend to keep them in the driveway way longer than you should. With a truck rental the time urgency helps me complete the project faster.
When the crew arrives, let the leader of the crew know you'll tip cash for good service.
We then rented the U-Haul recommended for a 3 bedroom apartment, picked two random Mexican volunteers, and paid them more than they asked for, for a very long day. It worked well.
But this did require having been well-organized before they came, having already found fragile stuff, and having our plan for how to protect those things.
You write the claim, give the evidence, and if they don't show up, you win by default and can hand the judgement to the insurance company to get paid.
You might get the cost of the move restored, but that doesn't cover the cost of repairs, replacements, and restoration.
Which is fine unless they know the system and how to play it - eg by telling the magistrate the second time around that they've made partial payment & have more coming, just need some time, etc.
Are you speaking from past experience? This is something I hear repeated on Hacker News all the time but I’ve never seen evidence that it’s particularly common.
As is demonstrated in this blog post, the insurer paid out directly on a claim of damages, no civil court required. But above & beyond that, to recoup costs paid for the move based on a dispute about the service rendered, my understanding is that you'd end up with a judgement against the moving company and the same struggles chasing them down as you already had.
Most criminals breaking into houses aren't buying up targeted lists of likely victims from data brokers yet, but it's effective so you should expect that the number of criminals turning to those resources will only increase.
The most innocent use of that data would result in you getting endless spam from the manufacturers of every item in your home letting you know about the latest model you should upgrade to, along with spam from every competitor telling you why their product should replace what you have. Companies you've never even heard of would suggest you buy their stuff just because you happen to have something in your home that is somewhat similar to something they offer.
Maybe the IRS gets their hands on that data and starts wondering how it is you've managed to afford what you have? Maybe you divorce and your ex's attorney uses that data against you because you forgot to list an asset or to demonstrate that you should have to pay more in alimony, or to paint you as being less fit for custody of your children. Maybe you have something in your home that matches something that was used in a crime and you become a suspect when you wouldn't have otherwise.
Maybe you have things in your home that others would find offensive and activists and extremists target you because of something you have. Scammers and thieves will use that data to target you more effectively. Physiological profiles will be updated based on what you own and how well you maintain your possessions. How sentimental are you? How much do brands and trends matter to you? What do your items say about your values? Those insights will be used by people looking to manipulate you and your views.
It could impact the prices you pay when you buy things, factor into whether or not you get employed at a job you want, and it wouldn't just be happening to you either, but to everyone else in your household including your children.
There's basically zero chance of that data helping you in any way and lots of ways it could end up being used against you without you even being aware of the cause. Your health insurance company isn't going to tell you that they raised your rates because the sporting equipment you kept in your garage made it look to an algorithm like you're more likely to get injured. You just see the higher bill. Everyone who gets their hands on that data will try to use in any and every way that they can to benefit themselves and that will usually be at your expense.
I'm willing to trade information about myself for goods and services.
Except with the moving damage risk, which is very significant.
The harms you're listing probably add up to less than a hundred dollars, if we're looking at the realistic risk.
Oh no, you wouldn't have access to that data. It belongs to the robot mover company, not you.
I've been waiting for that to happen in just about every product category I have ever used since the rise of surveillance capitalism and it hasn't yet. It's a fantasy.
Companies will always make more money by charging you as much as you're willing to pay and then also selling your data and/or using it against you for the rest of your life. No company is going to leave that endless flow of money on the table and settle for charging you a slightly higher amount one time. The shareholders won't tolerate that.
* "Their representive apologized and acknowledged that a crew of two was insufficient"..."they charged me a good deal of money for services they failed to deliver"
> I’m still unhappy with Flat Rate: they charged me a good deal of money for services they failed to deliver, and never paid for damage to the house.
Good on OP for not giving up and for going after insurance over and over.
Also the author links to the moving company's website but the anchor doesn't have the rel="nofollow" attribute.
Does this work outside high-profile cases? A condo I lived in faced dozens of serious offenses from the builder (e.g., live electrical wires left dangling open in living areas during a construction dispute.) The lawyers filed complaints with the NY AG but were told it mostly adds to some aggregate and real action is taken when the aggregate is huge. Also, we were told that most AG attention is focused on Manhattan and not the outer-boroughs.
Was the builder in the middle of renovating and there was some contract dispute? Legal issues are always nuanced and construction can easily have misunderstandings. With builders I'd have either a good construction attorney draft a contract or just hire a reputable builder. (Matt Risinger, for example, won't deal with custom legal contracts, so you generally will have to choose one or the other. I'd go with a reputable builder and one that doesn't want to tarnish that reputation.)
Any company that subcontracts as a surprise is shit. My MO now is if I get a surprise subby for any job, from coding to paving to moving I am going to tell them to fuck off. It ain't a good sign.
rootsudo•6h ago
But that sucks, luckily I’ve been able to just do U-Haul solo but lately (also facing a move) man - it is tiresome the older you get.
SoftTalker•6h ago
Yeah some stuff has sentimental value but try to get past that as much as you can. It’s just stuff.
When my uncle moved when he retired he took what would fit in his car. I have never gotten that lean but I admire him for it.
the__alchemist•6h ago
SoftTalker•6h ago
the__alchemist•6h ago
Now imagine a couple or family, who's been (criticize the capitalist/consumer culture or not) buying nice wood furniture, has a well-stocked kitchen, multiple computers, hobby equipment etc.
I encourage you to run a rough estimate of your own household's items. Do the same for your a neighbor's; a friend's.
throwaway173738•5h ago
RHSeeger•3h ago
deadbabe•6h ago
Der_Einzige•6h ago
You got ripped off if you paid 14K for 2 pieces.
kristjansson•4h ago
I’m sure they’re wonderful, and congratulations on the new acquisition! But you must know that’s a nonsensical statement. Above a certain level of sufficiency for purpose, it’s all a matter of taste. And like all matters of taste, the price can expand to absorb almost any budget
ghaff•1h ago
And priorities. I spent a lot on a dining room table but recently decided I'd buy an all-wood with more assembly replacement bed rather a really expensive hand-crafted platform. Can probably just have my contractors assemble and I'll still come out way ahead.
Der_Einzige•1h ago
It’s like boots - whites boots or Thurgood are objectively superior to almost everything else in terms of price to performance ratio. Most don’t buy them because they buy into Nikes bullshit propaganda. Product differentiation based on quality is the single most important aspect of price - even if companies do everything they can to obscure quality discovery.
what•5h ago
throwaway173738•5h ago
Glyptodon•7m ago
zeroonetwothree•1h ago
sandworm101•6h ago
Packing up everything into suitcases is all well and good for single IT workers moving between generic white-walled apartments. People with kids and hobbies have stuff that takes up space.
what•6h ago
How much does a harness, shoes and some rope cost?
aw1621107•5h ago
In addition, it's not uncommon for dedicated climbers to have multiple sets of ropes/shoes (and even harnesses) for different situations.
ChrisMarshallNY•5h ago
When I took climbing, as a teenager, our instructor was very serious about getting the best stuff: shoes, ropes, crampons, carabiners, gloves, jackets, etc.
Not cheap, but he put it as “do you want to die?”.
Same with diving gear.
margalabargala•5h ago
ChrisMarshallNY•5h ago
Fruits of a … colorful … childhood. I was sent to a number of “diversionary” curricula.
ghaff•3h ago
But, yeah, even a decent collection of 4-season hiking/backpacking/camping gear--even if you exclude the previous gen stuff you don't really use any longer can easily get into the thousands of dollars though people do scrape by with consignment and the like.
But, by the way, that's one of the issues. In the natural course of things, you can pick up relative bargains over time, If you're presented with "repopulate your house in the next few weeks" not so much.
In fact, I'm presented with the latter in the next month or so. Will have to rebuy a bunch of kitchen stuff in particular fairly quickly and I'll probably just place some big orders with Amazon, Sur La Table, and a handful of other companies without doing much in the way of careful shopping other than pulling from various lists.
sandworm101•5h ago
A full set of say a dozen cams, probably $1000. A set of tricams ($100). A couple sets of good nuts (2x$150). A set of hexes ($150). About a hundred oval crabs (100x$15) and a few beefy lockers (6x50$). Say 24ish quickdraws (24x$30). A half dozen belay devices/eights for various tasks (6x30$). Ropes are about 200 each for 50-60m dynamics. Any serious climber will own four or more. Plus some static lines for hauling. A set of jummars (2x150$). Lots of webbing for connecting stuff. A few thinner ropes for anchors and general utility uses. A couple pulley blocks (2x100). Rope bags. Gear bags. Cleaning tools. And a hundred other bits and bobs. Every wall climber also has an assortment of strange stuff, things few people ever see two of, for particular problems. For instance I have an ascender rated to catch falls, which is a useful self-rescue device. Such rare things are priceless.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/nuts_museum_the...
That's just the technical climbing gear for climbing rock. There is also all the camping stuff used when getting to or staying near the rock.
Then there is the box of aid climbing / bolting stuff. And the first aid stuff.
what•5h ago
kristjansson•4h ago
$14k just doesn’t cover replacing a household’s worth of stuff. If you still think it does, do a replacement value inventory of your place. And then update your insurance!
necubi•4h ago
what•4h ago
sandworm101•3h ago
100 seems like way too many, but things add up fast. Each piece of pro will need one or two. A basic trad anchor setup (three bit of pro) will involve five carabiners (3x plus two to tie off, and maybe a sixth if you want to top-rope the belay). So if you have a long pitch with say 15 bit of pro, and an anchor on either end, you are easily talking about 30+ carabiners in use on a single pitch. But you won't use every bit of pro on every pitch. You will have maybe a dozen other bits hanging off of you. That's another 20+ carabiners. So, on a single not-complicated trad route (no bolts) 50+ carabiners is not unusual. Get into complex things like multiple ropes and owning 100+ is not unusual.
Now having them all be ovals is strange. I took a stance early on that I wanted to standardize as much as possible. I bought BD ovals in bulk over a few years in the early 2000s. I like them, at least for everything other than quickdraw ends, rather than the random assortment many climbers end up collecting bit by bit.
Very basic trad anchor (3 bits of pro, 5 crabs) https://www.theclimbinglifeguides.com/blog/rock-climbing-anc...
margalabargala•5h ago
The person you replied to does not have anywhere near $14k of climbing gear unless they are into serious big-wall climbing that involves sleeping on the side of the wall, or else they run a rock climbing guide company.
Edit: Just saw they actually listed their kit out in another comment, which tracks closely with what I expected. They could probably replace all of it for under $5k.
kristjansson•5h ago
blackguardx•5h ago
NegativeK•4h ago
But 14k is still a lot.
brandall10•5h ago
Unless you’re buying mid-grade or lower IKEA or purchasing used, you’ll almost always come out behind by selling and repurchasing.
jghn•4h ago
Not really? Furniture is expensive. Once you move out of the garbage tier, that's not a whole lot of stuff.
RHSeeger•3h ago
Note, I love Bob's furniture. I have a couch from there I bought 10 years ago and it's absolutely the most comfortable couch I've ever had. My comment that they're low end is not, in any way, to insult the quality of what they have. Rather, they're not expensive (the same couch at a slightly more "name brand" place would have been twice the cost; for no increase in quality).
Glyptodon•16m ago
That said, it might cover two or three rooms of carefully budgeted non-crap furniture. Or like five of lucky thrift store finds.
B-Con•5h ago
wyclif•4h ago
ghaff•3h ago
I had a fairy minor (in the scheme of things) kitchen fire earlier this year. (Not my fault. Microwave burst into flames in the middle of the night.) Most of the contents are probably salvageable (or determined best replaced under replacement policy).
But I intend to be fairly discriminating as I move stuff back into the house. I had already started doing some sorting and donating/chucking bu this will accelerate it.
Der_Einzige•6h ago
autoexec•5h ago
With prices about to skyrocket and shelves about to be empty thanks to tariffs, mismanagement of the economy, and pissing off the people we depend on for nearly everything we have you'd have to be crazy to throw out everything you have and assume you'll save money buying new replacements for everything you lost.
subscribed•4h ago
They say to sell everything except what can fit in one briefcase, and to buy all that stuff new in the new place.
Super time consuming and expensive.
I don't want someone's used bed or used sofa, so I'll have to buy new. Almost everything depreciates with time, so you're looking at a house of the good, usable stuff that can be sold or donated for a fraction of the price over the course of weeks (in the meanwhile you can wash your family clothes in the river and eat out), and then spend weeks buying brand new stuff (I'm not sure if either of you knows how much the household equipment costs).
You're both likely talking from the perspective of the single małe loving in the small furnished flat and moving to another furnished flat. In that one edge case selling everything and buying new may work.
(just don't move the goalposts: you're effectively discussing with the stance no one took, because no one was arguing downsizing)
Der_Einzige•1h ago
I’m married, live in a big house, and I’m fine with “goal posts moving” to my own argument.
With the exception of giant high quality furniture I now have, getting rid of 80-90 percent of my shit would be economically superior to paying insane costs on movers. My wife won’t agree though because women hate minimalism they are obsessed with trinkets, do-dads, and Knick-knacks. (see women’s reactions to young men living with only TV and couch meme on the internet)
By combining moves with two or three others, you can get cross country moving costs on 3 couches and misc stuff to be in the 2-4K range. I know this because I paid that on my latest cross country move when I had about that much stuff last time.
Dylan16807•31m ago
They said "suitcases" and stuff you can ship. Not one briefcase.
You're effectively discussing with the stance no one took.
barbazoo•5h ago
pclmulqdq•5h ago
zeroonetwothree•1h ago
glitchcrab•7m ago
Der_Einzige•1h ago
Me being too slow to get it is one of my great regrets in life.
TuringNYC•5h ago
One problem is the delays on new furniture. I saw delays of 6-14 weeks on furniture when I last moved. I purchased a kitchen island from Ashley Furniture in 2021 which has still not fully arrived (the side-pieces are still pending in 2025) even though payments started as soon as the first item was shipped.
Also, you may find that furniture prices in 2025 are not what they were when you last moved given inflation.
idiotsecant•5h ago
subscribed•4h ago
It's just stuff you can or can't get. How would I know I can't get sofa? How much does assembling the furniture take? Do I book someone to help me with that or so I just pay for assembly? How much is the new mattress and why waste the old one, expensive and now destined to the skip?
How much is going to cost me the living room equipment? Not much, two gaming consoles, TV, 7+2 setup with a decent, 8k, flexible AVR.
Do I take the hit on buying the new motorcycle? Old, perfectly fine but a bit beaten bicycles will have to be thrown out as they look quite nasty (even though they ride well, in my currently 5th house), so it's a few grand on bicycles as well.
Do I need to throw out my network equipment as well? I mean, I could probably sell it on ebay for a fraction of the value and buy new for 20 times what I'll get from my old one, then just get through the pain of setting new software anew...
Etc, etc. I'm glad it works for you but it's laughable to offer your solution as a "best way to love" to everyone without knowing their circumstances.
neom•4h ago
kristjansson•3h ago
There’s a reason the US military pays for movers.
southernplaces7•2h ago
The best way? Really? Perhaps if you're comfortable enough financially in a way that most people in the U.S, or even more so, the rest of the world are not.
I mean, how wonderful if you have the discretionary budget to simply sell at a typical major discount or donate away most of your major physical possessions and just buy everything new. For many, many, if not most people, attempting such a thing would be a huge economic blow in addition to the already often heavy costs of moving.
If some of the advice and observations often given on this site seem like naval-gazing, bubble-dwelling nonsense, it's due to laughable comments like this one.
nunez•2h ago
Better/more expensive furniture is difficult to sell but also valuable enough to keep.
ghaff•1h ago
Glyptodon•20m ago
nunez•2h ago
My wife and I did a move ourselves once. Never again. Movers ever time.