frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

LLMs as Unbiased Oracles

https://jazzberry.ai/blog/test-generation-as-the-foundation
34•MarcoDewey•10mo ago

Comments

Jensson•10mo ago
> An LLM, specifically trained for test generation, consumes this specification. Its objective is to generate a diverse and comprehensive test suite that probes the specified behavior from an external perspective.

If one of these tests are wrong though it will ruin the whole thing. And LLM are much more likely to make a math error (which would result in a faulty test) than to implement a math function the wrong way, so this probably wont make it better at generating code.

MarcoDewey•10mo ago
I think this is a seriously excellent point.

The bet that I am making is that the system reduces its error rate by splitting a broad task into two more focused tasks.

However, it is possible that generating meaningful test cases is a harder problem (with a higher error rate) than producing code. If this is the case, then this idea I am presenting would compound the error rate.

satisfice•10mo ago
If your premises and assumptions are sufficiently corrupted, you can come to any conclusion and believe you are being rational. Like those dreams where you walk around without pants on and you are more worried about not having pants than you are about how it could have come to be that your pants kept going missing. Your brain is not present enough to find the root of the problem.

An LLM is not unbiased, and you would know that if you tested LLMs.

Apart from biases, an LLM is not a reliable oracle, you would know that if you tested LLMs.

The reliabilities and unreliabilities of LLMs vary in discontinuous and unpredictable ways from task to task, model to model, and within the same model over time. You would know this if you tested LLMs. I have. Why haven’t you?

Ideas like this are promoted by people who don’t like testing, and don’t respect it. That explains why a concept like this is treated as equivalent to a tested fact. There is a name for it: wishful thinking.

walterbell•10mo ago
> wishful thinking

Given the economic component of LLM wishes, we can look at prior instances of wishing-at-scale, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

troupo•10mo ago
There's a more recent one: https://blog.mollywhite.net/blockchain/
roenxi•10mo ago
Blockchains are past the gauntlet where they can be described as a mania, it is clear they are a permanent addition to the world of finance; probably as a multi-billion or -trillion dollar market cap asset class. If crypto was going to fail the interest rate rises would have done it by now.
troupo•10mo ago
Tulips. You're describing tulips.
MarcoDewey•10mo ago
I believe that I have unintentionally misled you. When I say "unbiased oracle" I am talking specifically about the test oracle being unbiased by how the software was implemented. ie. Black Box testing.

I don't think I made the point very clear in the blog (I will rectify that), but I am saying that because LLMs are so easily biased by their prompting that they sometimes perform better when doing black box testing tasks than they do when performing white box testing.

satisfice•10mo ago
I appreciate that you replied. It warms my heart, frankly. It gives me hope.

I don't want to have a big argument about this right at this moment. But-- truly-- thank you for replying!

TazeTSchnitzel•10mo ago
Is this a blogpost that's incomplete or a barely disguised ad?
saagarjha•10mo ago
You'd think AI would have told them not to post it
mock-possum•10mo ago
It’s hard to convince LLMs to be anything but supportive - lately I’ve been finding joy in reading its tone as patronizing.

“Exactly — that’s a very clean way to lay it out. You nailed it.”

brahyam•10mo ago
The amount of time it would take to write the formal spec for the code I need is more than it would take to generate the code so doesn't sound like something that will go mainstream. Except for those industries where formal code specs are already in place.
MarcoDewey•10mo ago
Yes, this test-driven approach will likely increase generation time upfront. However, the payoff is more reliable code being generated. This will lead to less debugging and fewer reprompts overall, which saves time in the long run.

Also agree on the specification formality. Even a less formal spec provides a clearer boundary for the LLM during code generation, which should improve code generation results.

bluefirebrand•10mo ago
LLMs are absolutely biased

They are biased by the training dataset, which probably also reflects the biases of the people who select the training dataset

They are biased by the system prompts that are embedded into every request to keep them on the rails

They are even biased by the prompt that you write into them, which can lead them to incorrect conclusions if you design the prompt to lead them to it

I think it is a very careless mistake to think of LLMs as unbiased or neutral in any way

MarcoDewey•10mo ago
You are correct that the notion of LLMs being completely unbiased or neutral does not make sense due to how they are trained. Perhaps my title is even misleading if taken at face value.

When I talk about "unbiased oracles" I am speaking in the context of black box testing. I'm not suggesting they are free from all forms of bias. Instead, the key distinction I'm trying to draw is their lack of implementation-level bias towards the specific code they are testing.

gwern•10mo ago
LLMs are also heavily biased after chatbot tuning leads to mode-collapse. That's why you see the same verbal tics coming out of them, like the em-dashes or the 'twist ending' in the more recent 4os. And if LLMs really were unbiased, you'd expect better scaling when you tried to bruteforce code correctness. Training a 'test LLM' will just wind up inheriting a lot of the shared blindspots. They aren't independent of the implementation at all (just like humans are not independent, even when they didn't write the original, and didn't see it either; and this is why you can't simply throw _n_ programmers at a piece of code and be certain you got all the bugs, and why fuzzers will continue to rampage through code).
stuaxo•10mo ago
The code correctness part is very true.

I don't mind LLMs as part of a journey on code, but it shouldn't be the end product.

I see something submitted by a colleague that doesn't fit the problem we have + tech well, go and ask an LLM and it outputs very similar code.

It's clear at that point that they submitted heavily LLMs produced code without giving it the work it needed.

Muromec•10mo ago
This and state actors target ai crawlers specifically ti pouson llms with propaganda
ninetyninenine•10mo ago
No this is just a very overly pedantic and technical way of looking at it.

First of all you'll note that all people are also biased by the Exact same reasoning. You know this. Everyone knows that all people are biased. This isn't something you don't know.

So if every single intelligence, human or not is biased. What is this article truly talking about? The article is basically saying LLMs are LESS biased then humans. Why are LLMs less biased then humans? Well maybe because the training set in an LLM is less biased then the training set given to a human. This makes sense right? A human will be made more biased by his individual experience and his parents biases while an LLM is literally inundated with as many sources of textual information as possible with no attempt at bias due to the sheer volume of knowledge they are trying to shove in there.

The article is basically referring to this.

But you will note interestingly that LLMs bias towards textual data more. They understand the world as if they have no eyes and ears and only text. So the way they think reflects this bias. But in terms of textual knowledge I think we can all agree, they are Less biased then humans.

Evidence: an LLM is not an atheist or a theist or an agnostic. But you, reader, are at the very least one of those three things.

neuroelectron•10mo ago
Yeah that would be cool
MarcoDewey•10mo ago
improving code generation would be awesome :)
neuroelectron•10mo ago
Unfortunately, Microsoft/Google needs those models for themselves.
fallinditch•10mo ago
I think it makes a lot of sense to employ various specialized LLMs in the software development lifecycle: one that's good at ideation and product development, one that fronts the organizational knowledge base, one for testing code, one (or more) for coding, etc, maybe even one whose job it is to always question your assumptions.
Mbwagava•10mo ago
Unbiased seems like a pipe-dream. Unbiased between which perspectives? Would the set of perspectives chosen not be de-facto bias?
sega_sai•10mo ago
I think the unbiasedness is completely red herring here, but do I agree with the point on focusing on the tests separately and implementations separately. Ideally you'd want two completely different LLMs work on both. But I think the question is, how trustworthy are the LLM tests ? Will the human review of these take more time than writing of the how code ? I think for non-critical applications, it probably does not matter, but in the end I think people will be looking for some guarantees or confidence that the errors happen with frequency less than X%. And I don't think those exist now. And given the models change so frequently it's also hard to be sure if something was working fine yesterday whether it'll be today.
MarcoDewey•10mo ago
I believe that the unprecedented scale of LLM-generated code will demand a novel approach to software review and testing. Human review may not be able to keep up (or will it become the bottleneck?)

Lego's 0.002 mm Specification and Its Implications for Manufacturing (2025)

https://www.thewave.engineer/articles.html/productivity/legos-0002mm-specification-and-its-implic...
64•scrlk•1h ago•25 comments

Microsoft BitNet: 100B Param 1-Bit model for local CPUs

https://github.com/microsoft/BitNet
107•redm•1h ago•62 comments

Whistleblower: DOGE member took Social Security data to new job

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2026/03/10/social-security-data-breach-doge-2/
98•raldi•33m ago•25 comments

The entities enabling scientific fraud at scale are large, resilient and growing

https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2420092122
22•peyton•53m ago•2 comments

PeppyOS: A simpler alternative to ROS 2 (now with containers support)

https://peppy.bot/
29•Ekami•3d ago•7 comments

Building a TB-303 from Scratch

https://loopmaster.xyz/tutorials/tb303-from-scratch
141•stagas•3d ago•48 comments

WA income tax clears House after 24-hour debate

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/wa-income-tax-passes-house-after-24-hour-debate/
22•garbawarb•17m ago•5 comments

Zig – Type Resolution Redesign and Language Changes

https://ziglang.org/devlog/2026/#2026-03-10
325•Retro_Dev•13h ago•159 comments

Show HN: Custom Git-receive-pack implementation

https://github.com/runxiyu/furgit/tree/master/cmd/receivepack9418
7•runxiyu•3d ago•2 comments

Cloudflare crawl endpoint

https://developers.cloudflare.com/changelog/post/2026-03-10-br-crawl-endpoint/
378•jeffpalmer•15h ago•148 comments

AI Agent Hacks McKinsey

https://codewall.ai/blog/how-we-hacked-mckinseys-ai-platform
45•mycroft_4221•4h ago•17 comments

Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

https://geohot.github.io//blog/jekyll/update/2026/03/11/running-69-agents.html
512•ppew•8h ago•360 comments

U+237C ⍼ Is Azimuth

https://ionathan.ch/2026/02/16/angzarr.html
355•cokernel_hacker•15h ago•60 comments

Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

https://www.wired.com/story/yann-lecun-raises-dollar1-billion-to-build-ai-that-understands-the-ph...
532•helloplanets•1d ago•442 comments

Tony Hoare has died

https://blog.computationalcomplexity.org/2026/03/tony-hoare-1934-2026.html
1888•speckx•23h ago•247 comments

TADA: Fast, Reliable Speech Generation Through Text-Acoustic Synchronization

https://www.hume.ai/blog/opensource-tada
73•smusamashah•8h ago•19 comments

Julia Snail – An Emacs Development Environment for Julia Like Clojure's Cider

https://github.com/gcv/julia-snail
116•TheWiggles•3d ago•15 comments

UK MPs give ministers powers to restrict Internet for under 18s

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/mps-give-ministers-powers-to-restrict-entire-inter...
9•robtherobber•16m ago•1 comments

Agents that run while I sleep

https://www.claudecodecamp.com/p/i-m-building-agents-that-run-while-i-sleep
375•aray07•19h ago•425 comments

RISC-V Is Sloooow

https://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2026/03/10/risc-v-is-sloooow/
277•todsacerdoti•18h ago•293 comments

SSH Secret Menu

https://twitter.com/rebane2001/status/2031037389347406054
275•piccirello•1d ago•125 comments

When the chain becomes the product: Seven years inside a token-funded venture

https://markmhendrickson.com/posts/when-the-chain-becomes-the-product/
32•mhendric•3d ago•11 comments

Writing my own text editor, and daily-driving it

https://blog.jsbarretto.com/post/text-editor
152•todsacerdoti•12h ago•70 comments

Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1061544/125f911834966dd0/
353•jwilk•23h ago•266 comments

Standardizing source maps

https://bloomberg.github.io/js-blog/post/standardizing-source-maps/
61•Timothee•9h ago•5 comments

Levels of Agentic Engineering

https://www.bassimeledath.com/blog/levels-of-agentic-engineering
230•bombastic311•1d ago•105 comments

Launch HN: RunAnywhere (YC W26) – Faster AI Inference on Apple Silicon

https://github.com/RunanywhereAI/rcli
228•sanchitmonga22•21h ago•134 comments

Roblox is minting teen millionaires

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-03-06/roblox-s-teen-millionaires-are-disrupting-the-...
187•petethomas•3d ago•228 comments

Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2026/02/universal-vaccine.html
309•phony-account•15h ago•114 comments

Mesh over Bluetooth LE, TCP, or Reticulum

https://github.com/torlando-tech/columba
120•khimaros•19h ago•14 comments