An example: https://vapor.codes/
The problem is that people only think it’s generally useful in the Apple ecosystem.
I think Swift is vastly underestimated due to it's relation to Apple.
It reminds me a lot of what it was like to ship Node.js software 15 years ago – the ecosystem is still young, but there are enough resources out there to solve 95% of the problems you'll face.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947193
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42803489
Granted, my perception may be wrong, but trying it to know for sure costs time. Swift has not earned my time investment.
Basically, Vapor has to be re-written as it is, in order to work will with swift 6+. Which kinda kills already any little moment it had.
Was looking to use it with a new project, as it is a nice framework, but going with GoLang on the server side due to all this in flux changes.
But that said it can be frustrating. A lot of the documentation and tutorials you find out there assume you’re on an Apple platform where, e.g. Foundation APIs are available. And the direction of the language, the features being added etc, very clearly serve Apple’s goals.
(Side note: IBM was an early adopter of Swift off-platform but then stepped back: https://forums.swift.org/t/december-12th-2019/31735)
EDIT: Yes, ref. counting is garbage collection, before the replies blow up. haha
You can certainly make the case that reference counting is a form of garbage collection, but it is absolutely false to say Swift has "a garbage collector." There is no runtime process that is responsible for collecting garbage – allocated objects are freed deterministically when their reference count hits zero.
The same thing is true of `shared_ptr` instances in C++, and there's certainly no "garbage collector" there, either.
What does "it" refer to? The function calls to _swift_release_()? Because if function calls are a "garbage collector," then free() is a garbage collector. And if free() is a garbage collector, then the term is too vague to have any useful meaning.
[1] https://forums.swift.org/t/an-embedded-audio-product-built-w...
I used vapor server also and now I think that Swift really has advantage for cross platform development. Just because of SwiftUI they've to adopt nonsense updates. IBM took greater decision on Kitura.
Vapor is still with Swift version 5.9; Let's see how it's ends.
Maybe I'm just really new at programming, but this seems like an absolutely bad feature, and the example actually perfectly proves it:
You really want to name a function "Hello World!" instead of helloWorld, just so your stack traces can pass a 5th grade English class exam?
I like that most languages seem to have reached consensus on backticks or other similarily awkward characters for this feature. Typing these identifiers is like hitting a speed bump, which seems to be enough to make devs avoid them except for very specific use-cases.
And apparently I never figured this out even after 3 years of Rust lol, thanks!
It's an important feature for FFI, as well as passing operator functions around. (It seems bizarre to me that you can't do `+` in Swift, but I don't know Swift so maybe there's another way to name such functions.)
Also, the Zig library now uses @"..." for variables with the same name as keywords, rather than using ad hoc naming conventions in those cases.
Yes, that is precisely why I don't like Ruby, it's actually impossible for tools to reason about many things that would make finding bugs before shipping feasible. Big companies like Shopify have to impose a lot of restrictions on it to make it work at scale, which is silly. Just use a different language!
Now Swift may not be in this situation because it's added yet more characters to wrap this nonsense so it is possible to reason about, but it's still just unnecessary, and I will be adding a lint rule against it at work. I don't expect a lot of pushback if any.
Also I like the backticks better than what zig came up with: @"404"
Common Lisp allows it as well, though I don't think I've ever seen it done outside a demonstration that it can be done.
test "strip html tags from string" {
...
}For macro generated code it is convenient to use identifiers that people won't accidently use in their own code. The ability to use arbitrary identifiers solve that.
There are just so many ways to solve a problem now that it's more or less impossible for someone to be familiar with all of them.
That said, some of the, erm, "new ways" to solve problems have been significant advancements. EG: Async/Await was a huge improvement over Combine for a wide variety of scenarios.
What is the alternative to Combine's CurrentValueSubject or combineLatest()?
People aren't expected to really learn that there is a "feature" called global-actor isolated conformances, but at some point they'll try to make a UI type conform to `Equatable,` and instead of an error saying you can't do that, they'll get a fixit about needing to specify the conformance as `struct MyUIType: @MainActor Equatable` instead.
I bet 99% of codebases won't use "method and initializer key paths," but there's really no reason why you should be able to get a key path to a property, but not a method. It just hadn't been implemented yet, and the language is more consistent now.
Personally, I think raw identifiers are kinda dumb, but that just means I won't use them. IMO there isn't really more cognitive overhead when using the language because it's possible to use spaces in function names now.
If you want constrained numeric types in Swift, that's another problem to tackle. But `HTTPStatus.`404`` seems to be the least ideal way to go about it. It lets you do stuff like to declare `HttpStatus.`404`` with a value of 403 too.
It's like when you see a poisonous snake and can't remember if "red touches yellow" is paired with "deadly fellow" or "friendly fellow".
I have to say Paul Hudson has almost single-handedly taken over communicating the essentials of Swift to the world; he’s fantastically reliable, brief but enthusiastic, guiding people around the many pitfalls.
I really wish the entire Swift team would spend a quarter fixing bugs and improving the compiler speed, though. So many trivial SwiftUI cases trigger the "this is too complex for the compiler" errors which are so frustrating to fix.
I found myself awestruck that I *HAD* to use XCode or xcodebuild, and could not just run `swift build` and generate an iOS app.
In the end, I had to:
- compile the .app structure myself
- run codesign manually
- manage the simulator manually
- bundle xcAssets manually
- provide swift linker flags manually targeting the toolchain/sdk I needed
- manually copy an embedded.mobileprovision
It was a good learning experience, but what's the story here? Did Apple just give away Swift to the OSS community and then make no ongoing effort to integrate their platforms nicely into the non-xcode build tooling? Looking into https://github.com/stackotter/swift-bundler
Swift was my favorite programming language after C++/Java since 2014. I've been faced major updates few times happily. It was one of the most easiest language. But now,
I tried to update a project from Swift 5.x to 6.x which has 150+ source files itself and no external libraries which is written by my own use and it has almost all swift 5.x features. They made up Swift as super hard. I decided not to use Swift 6 anymore and yes I don't need to reduce debugging time, Even though I don't have powerful computer and debugging time isn't matter to me & development time is actual matter to me.
The language itself becomes Rust (the programming language using by aliens). I Hope Swift language is upgrading itself for Aliens or the Swift team is filled with Aliens. Now, I feel ObjC is super easiest language than Swift.
PS: I understand Swift is Corporate Product & upgrading towards SwiftUI than general purpose programming language. I never gonna use Swift 6 even I do use ObjC for my projects.
I liked Swift when I tried it a couple of years ago, but it seems overloaded with features these days. I haven't tried Swift UI yet, but I did think the Objective-C approach with xibs, struts and such worked fine.
SwiftUI is a wreck, that is still not good for advanced UI and you still have to use UIKit for some parts, and
Taking Objective-C, with DispatchQueue, and some modernization of it, and some new data structures, which it need, was all it was needed to make a good new langue.
It could have been Apple's rival to GoLang, but instead it ended up being hydra/monster with too many pardagimns, and none of them are good.
N years later, it doesn’t feel like there has been a step change in Apple software quality; if anything Apple software feels less solid, and looks cool “look what I did” extension points. I mean, some of the tings you could do with runtime categories, and runtime prototypes were really cool. Now when I work on my 2 apps that originally happily port to Swift/UIKit, I’m just left confused with how to make things work. I’m happy when it finally works, and don’t ever try to improve the thing, it’s too much work.
There’s lots of different variables at play here; I’m not trying to stretch inference too much. Heck, it could have been that with adding Swift to the mix, the forces that have contributed to reduced quality in Apples stuff would be even worse.
I’m just frustrated. When I work in Elixir, I’m like this is cool. When I work in Kotlin, I don’t feel like “Apples got a language like this too, but it’s got that extra special zing that used to make stuff Apple touched cool.”
Half a decade later it seems like it should be better and Swift stuff should be stabilized. But nope, I’ve had more little glitches in both iOS and MacOS. It’s hard to say it’s due to Swift, and not management priorities. Still it feels partially related to Swift.
Swift’s goals are great, I like the syntax, but the language implementation seems to just special case everything rather than having coherent language design.
That and Swift de-emphasizes Obj-C message passing. I have a pet theory that message passing produces more robust GUI software that’s easier to adapt to complex needs.
This could not be furthest for the truth. The entire process of proposing a new language feature to getting it implemented and shipped is out in the open for everyone to participate/see.
Glad they are backtracking on this, and I hope they start remove features and simplifying things. Swift's enemy is its own self and the people steering int into just an academic exercise, rather than a practical and performant language that can be used in many domains. Server side Swift right now is dead due to all these insane changes.
Hopefully things get better on the server/other non ios domains, but the language needs to get simplified and become practical and fun to use.
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Even in Go which has my favorite parallel concurrency model, there are many footguns and needless walking on eggshells for business logic. You can still offload IO and bespoke compute to other threads when it makes sense. This view isn’t a panacea, but damn close for the 99% of use cases.
Coincidentally I also think the early success of JavaScript an largely be attributed to single-threaded run-loop and callback-oriented concurrency. Even on the server JS is still holding strong with this limitation, and that’s despite all the other limitations and insanity of JS.