Every 5x5 Nonogram

https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram

144•eieio•1d ago

Comments

okayestjoel•1d ago

This is my game! I was recently curious about how many 5x5 nonograms can be solved purely with logic, no guessing. After running my nonogram solver on all 33,554,432 possible pixel combinations in a 5x5 grid, it turns out the answer is 24,976,511.

Inspired by One Million Checkboxes, I thought it would be cool to create a realtime, collaborative nonogram game where we can collectively try to complete all ~25 million of these puzzles. Just launched it this afternoon and its already at 65k solved!

Let me know if you have any feedback.

gus_massa•1d ago

How many of the other 9 millions have a unique solution? I played minesweeper and sometime you can think a while and deduce a square that is not obvious.

okayestjoel•1d ago

I believe none of the other 9 million have a unique solution. My nonogram solver goes over every possible configuration for each row and column based on the clues, and either fills in squares that must be filled (all possibilities overlap) or marks squares that must be empty. So if the solver reaches a point where there is ambiguity about what the next move is, then it is deemed not solvable (without guessing). A good example is a 5x5 puzzle where each row and column clue is "1": there are many possible 5x5 pixel grids that share those set of clues. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding your question.

gus_massa•1d ago

You can try to codify for example https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram#10725003 as "11-31-1-12-0+11-3-1-11-11" (is there an standard in the community?) and add the 9 million "unsolvable" codified strings to a vector and sort the vector, and then look for not repeated consecutive. For example, your case "1-1-1-1-1+1-1-1-1-1" should appear exactly 120 consecutive times in the sorted 9 million vector. Is there one that is not repeated?

Feature request: It would be nice to have a jump to unsolved puzzle. In section 1 it's difficult to find an empty one. Also, there is something weird with scrolling.

okayestjoel•1d ago

In my mind, a well-formed nonogram is one that requires no backtracking. It's an interesting question though. I'll write some code in the next few days to check to see if my set of "unsolvable" puzzles include those with unique solutions given the clues.

Yeah, a "jump to unsolved" seems like its going to be essential. I'll work on that. I haven't heard of the scrolling issue. What device/browser are you using?

quuxplusone•23h ago

On Android Chrome, "flinging" the scroll really far really fast sometimes keeps scrolling long beyond when I would have expected it to stop. But the page is so gigantic that that might just be the expected behavior.

FYI, I've also noticed that on Android (but not on desktop Chrome) sometimes single-tapping to remove a black square will leave a stray X behind. I think this is not a logic bug but rather a mobile input-recognition problem — that on mobile a single-tap is sometimes being recognized as a single-tap followed by a double-tap. (Quickly double-tapping an empty cell usually marks it with an X; although quickly double-tapping a filled cell usually just clears it, no X. So the symptom here is "I meant to single-tap a filled cell, but the game acted as if I'd single-tapped and then double-tapped the same cell again.")

gus_massa•23h ago

> Scrolling

Chrome on Windows 10, nothing fancy. I move pick the scroll bar on the right with the mouse and move slowly down, perhaps to the middle and try to find a empty range, and when I release mouse it goes back near the top. As a guess: Have you tire to scroll at the ame time that other player is solving puzles in the same section? Try section 1.

> requires no backtracking

I have more background in Math Olympiads and plain Math. You can do backtracking to find a unique solution if you write all the options and discard all-1 of them. It sounds fancier if you call it "Reductio ad absurdum" :) . It's an usual trick, and my recommendation is that if you are in the middle of a problem that ask to fill a board and you have two(or more) options, first copy the board as many times as necessary and intermediately fill the two(or more) possibilities, to avoid forgetting one of them.

For games like minesweeper, sudoku or nonogram, my personal criteria is that if I can run the backtracking in my head, it's "thinking", but if I have to draw the two(or more) boards it's "backtracking".

For me it's probably only two options in a square, no further branching and only two or three steps deep before the contradiction. (If your name is Magnus, everything is "thinking".)

(By the way: Nice game implementation!)

gus_massa•20h ago

*intermediately -> immediately

jsmith45•20h ago

Yeah, while large portions of the online logic puzzle communities tend to agree that puzzles should not require backtracking (after all one can often trivialize the intended logical solve path like that), it has proven difficult to define what should count as backtracking vs a simple obvious contradiction that should count as a logical step.

Ability to visualize it in your head, without needing to copy the board, or make temporary marks is certainly not unreasonable for complicated puzzles. That is the same rule as Simon uses for logic puzzles (mostly variant sudoku) on the YouTube channel Cracking the Cryptic.

It isn't the most satisfying way to delineate the dividing line, since how much a person can track in their head can vary, but coming up with other rules can be absurdly tricky. Especially if one wants to make a set of rules applicable to multiple types of logic puzzles. After all simple two to three step contradictions may be unusually powerful for some types of logic puzzles, while they can be the basic deduction type for a different one.

ghusbands•15h ago

It's common to assume that your solver encodes all the techniques that a human might reasonably use (without backtracking) but it's rarely the case. Someone could look at the clues in two columns and two rows at the same time, for example, and work out whether they together constrain something. (It's easier to see cases in minesweeper where quite long-range deductions can be made, especially when you're down to the last few mines.)

Look elsewhere in the thread and you'll see that there are 333,064 uniquely-solution grids that you have excluded.

purpleidea•1d ago

> there is ambiguity about what the next move is

It's common to have situations where you need to guess between two possibilities, and then you'll find out that one is wrong and you need to backtrack.

So I hope the algo you implement only excludes puzzles with more than one solution. As long as there is exactly one solution, it's completely logical and fair game.

dietr1ch•1d ago

I really don't like the wording about multiple solutions not being logical. I get that instances where resolution doesn't lead you to the unique solution are annoying and don't scratch the right part of your brain, but I feel this audience could be more precise.

Here's a simple Nonogram to annoy everyone

# 1 1

1 . .

MrJohz•1d ago

This is a philosophical point about what's considered solveable. For example, in the sudoku community, there's this idea of bifurcation, which is when you get to a point in a puzzle where there are two options to take, and you step through each option manually until you figure out which one is correct, and backtrack if necessary.

You can do an entire puzzle this way (just keep on trying options and seeing if they work), but this is generally not on. If you build a puzzle that can only be solved this way, then you've built a bad puzzle, at least by the standards of the sudoku solving community. On the other hand, most complex or variant sudoku puzzles will have moments where there are two or three possibilities for a cell, and you need to look at the immediate effects of those possibilities to figure out which one is correct. So clearly some amount of bifurcation and backtracking is fine.

Fwiw, in the nonograms I've done in various apps, there's almost never a need to guess between different possibilities. I don't know if that's because the puzzle format itself is fairly constrained, or if the apps typically try to exclude these cases. But typically, it's always possible to see a next step, without needing to try things out and guess.

curtisf•1d ago

What do you mean by "purely with logic, no guessing"?

"Guess and backtrack" is a totally valid form of deduction for pen-and-paper puzzles, it's just not very satisfying. But often (always?) there is a satisfying deduction technique that could have replaced the guess-and-check, it may just be fairly obtuse.

Or do you just mean where the clues for the raster don't result in a unique solution?

stagger87•1d ago

Not OP, but you don't ever have to guess and backtrack, you can always work out the next move. After playing about 100 boards several simple "rules" emerge which allow for this.

vintermann•1d ago

Yes, 5x5 is small enough that all backtracking can be codified into easily human-accessible rules.

* 5, 0, 1 1 1, 2 2, 3 1 and 3 1 are immediately solved

* 4 lets you set 3 squares immediately

* 3, 2 1 and 1 2 let you set 1 square immediately

jobigoud•1d ago

In summary the only ones that don't let you put a square immediately are "0", "1", "2" and "1, 1". And as soon as you put a square you can put some crosses (right click). In the end it becomes fairly mechanic.

Ancapistani•12h ago

100 puzzles in, and I've not had the need for a manually-placed cross, either.

jhanschoo•1d ago

Hot take: Some valid rules are just brute-force search in an altered state space.

For example, a valid "advanced" rule is this: consider a line, then consider all permutations of ways to complete it given the current state of the line. If a square is filled in/crossed out in all these permutations, then it you may fill it in/cross it out.

This is an O(n!) algorithm! In practice you only have <5 permutations.

curtisf•23h ago

If I recall correctly, it's actually possible to implement this in O(n) (or maybe O(n^2)) time and space using a "dynamic programming" algorithm.

But in general, Nonogram solving, like most pen-and-paper puzzles, is NP-Complete for large enough puzzles, so even such a high-powered rule isn't guaranteed to completely solve a (large) puzzle.

ilikepi•1d ago

This is great! One thing that would be helpful is to be able to drag multiple adjacent tiles...

gschizas•1d ago

Why do some puzzles have a green or red border? What does this signify?

EDIT: or purple border.

JKCalhoun•14h ago

Someone is working on them.

shivbhatia•1d ago

This is really cool!

questerzen•1d ago

I calculated that 25,309,575 games have a unique solution. My back-tracking solver correctly finds all answers for all of the 28,781,820 possible distinct games.

ghusbands•19h ago

The number of unique 5x5 grids is 33,554,432 (2^25) and the number if you ignore rotation or reflection is 4,211,744. What is 28,781,820?

duskwuff•14h ago

That's the number of unique combinations of clues for all 2^25 puzzles. There are 13 possible clues for each row/column (0 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 21 22 31 111), but not all 13^10 possible combinations can appear together - for instance, 5 5 5 5 5 / 0 0 0 0 0 is obviously impossible.

(I wrote a program to calculate this by generating all 2^25 puzzles and their clues, then sorting by the clues. I also verified the count of 25,309,575 clues with unique solutions.)

ghusbands•14h ago

That's great, thanks. I've also independently verified the 25,309,575 using similar techniques.

quuxplusone•1d ago

questerzen (below) is correct: there are 25,309,575 solvable nonograms, not 24,976,511.

This is OEIS sequence A242876 — https://oeis.org/A242876

okayestjoel (below) wrote:

> My nonogram solver goes over every possible configuration for each row and column based on the clues, and either fills in squares that must be filled (all possibilities overlap) or marks squares that must be empty. So if the solver reaches a point where there is ambiguity about what the next move is, then it is deemed not solvable (without guessing).

It would be (mildly) interesting to see an example of one of the 333064 solvable 5x5 nonograms that cannot be solved by okayestjoel's solver's heuristics.

quuxplusone•17h ago

Here's a reverse example: Nonogram #18,950,614 (in section 759) is "21-1-12-21-12+4-21-1-3-11". If we fill in every cell that absolutely must be filled in based only on the data shown in a single row or column (plus the Xs that the JavaScript shows us), we get to this point:

         2  1
        41131
    1 2 ___#_
    2 1 ##x#x
    1 2 #__#_
      1 #xxxx
    2 1 _#_x#

I believe at this point the tactic of "just find a cell that must be black based only on data from its row or column" fails. We can continue only by "using our heads" (i.e. "backtracking"), or by starting to mark cells that must be empty based on data from only their row or column. The cell with the capital X below must be empty because of data in row 3. But the JavaScript didn't auto-mark it with an X. Maybe this is just a logic bug in the JavaScript?:

         2  1
        41131
    1 2 ___#_
    2 1 ##x#x
    1 2 #X_#_
      1 #xxxx
    2 1 _#_x#

And from there we can solve column 2, row 1, row 3, and row 5, in that order.

duskwuff•14h ago

I don't know exactly how okayestjoel's solver works, but here's an example of a nonogram which I imagine it would consider "difficult":

       1 1   1
     2 1 1 2 1
   2 . . . . .
   2 . . . . .
  11 . . . . .
   2 . . . . .
  11 . . . . .

This puzzle has a unique solution (141a706), but none of the clues immediately tell you anything about the state of any specific cell.

gus_massa•10h ago

Thanks, it's a nasty example.

[spoiler alert]

Naming the coumns ABCDE from left to right, and the rows 12345 from top to bottom. Let's consider B2 near the top left. If B2 full:

Then B1 is empty because B has "only" ones. Then the "two" block in row 1 must make D1 full. Then D2 is also full because D has a "two". Now B2 and D2 are full, but that's impossible because B has only a "two".

So the B2 must be empty. From that point it's possible to fill all the others without "guessing".

So no branches and 3 steps to get a contradiction. I can run that in my head, so I call it "thinking" instead of "backtracking".

qbane•9h ago

If you assume that a cell is full and then get a contradiction, this is pretty much a backtracking to a computer. So it is reasonable that the solver does not do this trick.

gus_massa•9h ago

I agree they are the same. It's just that if the try is short enough, I consider it a valid trick.

duskwuff•9h ago

Now I wonder if there are any 5x5 nonograms which can be proven to require multiple levels of backtracking, i.e. where you have to make at least two guesses before reaching a contradiction, no matter where you put those guesses.

jaachan•1d ago

This is fun! But with more progress made, finding a puzzle to solve will become the hardest path.

Maybe a heat map of all sections based on completion percentage? And maybe a way to jump to the first or a random unsolved puzzle once you've opened a section?

bombcar•13h ago

Under one of the hamburger menus or something, there was an unsolved and it took you right to the next.

Traubenfuchs•23h ago

...how do I start a game?

pimlottc•22h ago

I was surprised that it automatically fills in the blank spaces once you mark all the filled ones, I haven't seen that in other PBN games. As a test, I tried solving one by only marking all the blanks, sadly it didn't fill in the remaining squares for me... :)

One minor UI suggestion: you should allow filling (or marking empty) multiple boxes by holding the mouse button down. This makes it easier to fill in entire rows or columns.

simonmysun•20h ago

Good job! So when a section is almost finished, how should I find the last few unsolved nonograms?

ryani•5h ago

I want to be able to click-and-drag. For example, in this row

    1 2 |x x  |

if I left click the second cell and drag right it should mark all the blank cells black.

Similarly in the inverted case, if I have marked cells and right-click-and-drag next to them it should mark the empty spots I cross over with Xs.

Important: this doesn't change the state of any cell that wasn't blank to start out. You should have to click on a marked cell to clear it (or right click to replace it with an X). And similarly to above, if you drag, it should change only the cells you touch that match the starting state of your original cell to the new state.

anxiousbuddhist•1d ago

This is a ton of fun!

A really useful feature would be to hide finished and/or in progress ones so I don't have to scroll forever.

Great work, nicely polished, cool idea.

JKCalhoun•1d ago

When a row is completed it vanishes ... Tetris-style.

tantalor•1d ago

No but really how do I play. Do I click something to start a puzzle?

dietr1ch•1d ago

Just scroll down until you find an unsolved puzzle.

I wish you could filter out and just play unsolved ones.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF•1d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonogram

scythe•1d ago

This is a downright hazard. I scrolled down to find one that wasn't solved yet, and the next thing I knew it was 30 minutes later and I had solved a hundred of them.

MaysonL•1d ago

I went through 102 before i knew it.

butz•1d ago

In my youth I was considering drawing all possible 8x8 1bit color pixel icons and never got around to it. Probably it is the time to finally do it, and maybe even go further with 2 bit colors?

FabHK•22h ago

Well, if you do a million per second, it'll take you less than a million years. So, now is as good a time to get started as any.

NooneAtAll3•1d ago

idk if it's a bug or smth, but it keeps resetting the page to the top of the section

I can't start solving from the middle

bspammer•1d ago

This is great, but someone is going to ruin the fun with a bot eventually, I hope you have a way to remove “solves” by IP.

fph•1d ago

There must be a swastika picture in there, somewhere.

punty•10h ago

https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram#14823232

x-complexity•23h ago

I haven't seen anyone say this out loud, so here's my $0.02:

Since every box is either filled in (1) or not (0), a solved 5x5 nonogram can be encoded as a 25-bit unsigned integer. So would a 6x6 (36), 7x7 (49), 8x8 (64), etc.

... So if desired, an AES-256 key can be encoded as a solved 16x16 nonogram. The perimeter hints can then be derived by Alice and given to Bob as a weak form of information obfuscation.

egoburnswell•14h ago

Somewhere in there there's a 5x5 swastika

Waterluvian•14h ago

I love this idea of collectively solving some set of puzzles.

But I don’t understand how I can. The UI design seems broken.

First I couldn’t interact with any puzzles until I realized these were already finished. But how do I get to unfinished ones? I scrolled forever and didn’t find one.

treve•14h ago

There's a button at the top with an arrow ->, which lets you find an unsolved puzzle.

Waterluvian•14h ago

Aha!! Yes thanks!

I saw that icon and interpreted it as an export button or something.

Waterluvian•13h ago

It seems that this has every 5x5 nonogram. And that none of them require guesswork. Ie. You can derive the answer by following an algorithm without ever having to undo a step.

That means that no 5x5 requires guesswork.

Surely there’s got to be a maths video about this. It seems like an incredible little quirk…

marssaxman•12h ago

I knocked out a hundred of these last night - what a fun concept.

mdtrooper•10h ago

https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/

charcircuit•10h ago

I suspect it's being botted now. The solve rate when massively up while the user count went down.

punty•9h ago

Some fun boards:

The empty board: https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram#21035201

The full board: https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram#13821100

A greeting board: https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram#4282670

A checkerboard: https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram#24204839

A board of love: https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram#14090887

Question block: https://pixelogic.app/every-5x5-nonogram#18519948

ilikepi•8h ago

How did you come to build this collection? They're all in different sections...

punty•29m ago

I don't want to ruin the game for the community so will hold off on saying too much. I will say this- this game is very well designed so it's pretty straightforward to understand how it works without using anything more than the network tab of chrome :). No js, frontend puppeteering, etc. are needed. I might write it up when the game is close to completion!

manarth•4h ago

Love this, but seeing "There was a problem communicating with the server." very often. Bots or HN hug of death?

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Every 5x5 Nonogram

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