The account of the final weaving of the bridge is awesome. I'd imagine it isn't much different from any job you can do while "dangling," but still. Wow.
I am curious on the idea that wheels would not have been helpful? I get that full blown carriages and such would have been a bit of work to use, but it isn't like a wheel barrow isn't already useful.
I'm also curious on how they wound the rope without some sort of wheel involved?
soperj•4h ago
> I'm also curious on how they wound the rope without some sort of wheel involved?
Right, I know it involves spinning, which fair that you can just use a crank.
My curiosity was more on the very heavy ropes. I'd assume that you would benefit heavily from a geared like setup to run the spinning.
subzero06•4h ago
Its a tradition, they do everything manual like the Incas did it. They don't like using "wheels" or any sort of technology as it would ruin the tradition. You can see the process here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQl6geeY7CM
Oh- and it involves a lot of people not a 1 man job.
taeric•3h ago
Awesome, thanks for the video!
And I'd expect anything like this to be more than a 1 man job! Apologies if I implied otherwise. I'd expect even using wheels for the turning that you would need more than a single person.
It is obnoxious how hard it is to search on why they would have never invented a wheel for the spinning of thread. AI seems to insist that spinning wheels are directly the result of carting wheels. I'd expect even wheels for a pulley system would have helped with the hanging process.
wahern•3h ago
The Inca had wheels, they just didn't use them for much. There are Incan toys with wheels, for example. AFAIU the consensus opinion is that carting wheels never took hold in pre-Columbian America because of a lack of draft animals.
The Inca used spindles for spinning thread, which apparently was sufficient for their needs. And the wheelbarrow is, interestingly (TIL), a relatively recent Old World invention, with the earliest depictions from 2nd century AD China. Even the chariot didn't arrive in the Old World until the early 2nd millennia BC. And the chariot wasn't invented by the Egyptians or Chinese, but by peoples in the Eurasian Steppe. (Who probably not coincidentally were some of the first to domestic horses? More primitive wheeled carts were much older but also contemporaneous with emergence of other domesticated draft animals like oxen, I think. Smaller animals can draft, but the utility is severely diminished beyond very favorable terrain.)
WalterBright•2h ago
Many "obvious" inventions take a very long time to happen. For example, the very slow evolution of boats. It took forever to come up with the keel. Also the fork.
Rigid, authoritarian societies also seem to have a lot of problems inventing new things, especially disruptive things.
James Burke's "Connections" is a great history of invention.
taeric•2h ago
Totally fair. Direct to this one, you could probably look at the evolution of rope and generally fabric. I imagine without modern techniques, many of the clothes that we wear would probably not be possible? Certainly not at the scale that we have them.
MangoToupe•30m ago
> authoritarian societies also seem to have a lot of problems inventing new things
I'm not sure evidence can easily sustain this. Even putting aside the kind-of-tautological "rigid societies don't invent disruption" sentiment.... not only is "authoritarian" a pretty vague phrase in terms of economics, but we have a good deal of evidence of societies we mostly consider authoritarian inventing plenty of "disruptive" things. Just not a generally beneficial sort of disruption.
taeric•2h ago
Even spinning wheels use a spindle. The question would be why they didn't invent the use of a wheel to help with the spinning portion of the task?
But, yeah, my short dives show the same. It is generally held that carting wheels weren't useful due to lack of draft animals. I just find that reason awkward with how useful manual applications of the wheel are for me. Dolleys and wheelbarrows are the easiest example, of course. But pulley systems in general are super useful. And don't, necessarily, need a draft animal.
MangoToupe•31m ago
> The question would be why they didn't invent the use of a wheel to help with the spinning portion of the task?
They did have spinning pottery wheels, just not load-bearing ones.
taeric•22m ago
So is the claim that they did not invent the wheel pretty strictly for use in carts?
Still seems a little surprising they would not have invented pulleys. They clearly had good experience with ropes.
MangoToupe•33m ago
> AFAIU the consensus opinion is that carting wheels never took hold in pre-Columbian America because of a lack of draft animals.
On hilly terrain, wheels simply aren't the best thing to use—you can't fully sustain the weight easily pulling up the hill as opposed to standing on the incline. Meanwhile we have tons of evidence of people used as couriers for relatively heavy items with a specific sort of framed backpack.
The lack of pack animals is a real thing, but domesticated horses would have seriously struggled even if they magically appeared in the pre-colonial incan empire. Even today, transportation by donkey sans-cart is often the easiest way to move a bunch of stuff around the andes without prepared roads.
jmward01•4h ago
Everyone thinks of Machu Picchu but this bridge is pretty high up there on interesting things to see, and cross.
taeric•5h ago
I am curious on the idea that wheels would not have been helpful? I get that full blown carriages and such would have been a bit of work to use, but it isn't like a wheel barrow isn't already useful.
I'm also curious on how they wound the rope without some sort of wheel involved?
soperj•4h ago
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gH4I0R7Hp2c
taeric•4h ago
My curiosity was more on the very heavy ropes. I'd assume that you would benefit heavily from a geared like setup to run the spinning.
subzero06•4h ago
taeric•3h ago
And I'd expect anything like this to be more than a 1 man job! Apologies if I implied otherwise. I'd expect even using wheels for the turning that you would need more than a single person.
It is obnoxious how hard it is to search on why they would have never invented a wheel for the spinning of thread. AI seems to insist that spinning wheels are directly the result of carting wheels. I'd expect even wheels for a pulley system would have helped with the hanging process.
wahern•3h ago
The Inca used spindles for spinning thread, which apparently was sufficient for their needs. And the wheelbarrow is, interestingly (TIL), a relatively recent Old World invention, with the earliest depictions from 2nd century AD China. Even the chariot didn't arrive in the Old World until the early 2nd millennia BC. And the chariot wasn't invented by the Egyptians or Chinese, but by peoples in the Eurasian Steppe. (Who probably not coincidentally were some of the first to domestic horses? More primitive wheeled carts were much older but also contemporaneous with emergence of other domesticated draft animals like oxen, I think. Smaller animals can draft, but the utility is severely diminished beyond very favorable terrain.)
WalterBright•2h ago
Rigid, authoritarian societies also seem to have a lot of problems inventing new things, especially disruptive things.
James Burke's "Connections" is a great history of invention.
taeric•2h ago
MangoToupe•30m ago
I'm not sure evidence can easily sustain this. Even putting aside the kind-of-tautological "rigid societies don't invent disruption" sentiment.... not only is "authoritarian" a pretty vague phrase in terms of economics, but we have a good deal of evidence of societies we mostly consider authoritarian inventing plenty of "disruptive" things. Just not a generally beneficial sort of disruption.
taeric•2h ago
But, yeah, my short dives show the same. It is generally held that carting wheels weren't useful due to lack of draft animals. I just find that reason awkward with how useful manual applications of the wheel are for me. Dolleys and wheelbarrows are the easiest example, of course. But pulley systems in general are super useful. And don't, necessarily, need a draft animal.
MangoToupe•31m ago
They did have spinning pottery wheels, just not load-bearing ones.
taeric•22m ago
Still seems a little surprising they would not have invented pulleys. They clearly had good experience with ropes.
MangoToupe•33m ago
On hilly terrain, wheels simply aren't the best thing to use—you can't fully sustain the weight easily pulling up the hill as opposed to standing on the incline. Meanwhile we have tons of evidence of people used as couriers for relatively heavy items with a specific sort of framed backpack.
The lack of pack animals is a real thing, but domesticated horses would have seriously struggled even if they magically appeared in the pre-colonial incan empire. Even today, transportation by donkey sans-cart is often the easiest way to move a bunch of stuff around the andes without prepared roads.