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Matt Trout has died

https://www.shadowcat.co.uk/2025/07/09/ripples-they-cause-in-the-world/
111•todsacerdoti•15h ago

Comments

rwmj•14h ago
Couldn't we have a one sentence description of what "shadowcat" is? (The main website is also down at the moment.)
sebmellen•14h ago
> Shadowcat Systems is an open source software developer and software consultancy provider based in the UK but accustomed to operating worldwide via electronic communications.

> We offer proven expertise in development of networked systems and reliably automating manual processes from business workflow to systems and network management. Shadowcat is committed to Open Source technology and specialises in working with Open Source Software and open standards and protocols. Shadowcat also contributes back to the community with patches, scripts and occasionally full packages.

detaro•14h ago
Maybe more relevant, Matt was a big deal in the Perl community.
ether_at_cpan•5h ago
In his bio he has the most succinct and accurate description of Perl that I've ever seen:

> Perl is a wonderful language once you get over the fact that a slightly quirky set of syntax and embedded regular expressions have a tendency to make it look like line noise in the wrong light. Once you're used to it, it's a hell of an expressive dynamically typed language with a huge set of libraries and classes available for it.

petesergeant•14h ago
alt title: Matt Trout (mst) -- prominent Perl developer -- has died aged 42

Matt Trout (mst) was a very big deal in the Perl 5 community, although he was a deeply polarizing figure. He was a big contributor to many Modern Perl projects. I am personally very sad he's dead. I enjoyed the time I spent with him in person, and always found him personally supportive, encouraging, and helpful, although it would be remiss to not mention that a good section of other people found him a very difficult character on many levels.

He wasn't a particularly heavy HN user, but here he is: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=mst

kleiba•14h ago
For someone not up-to-date with the Perl community, could you elaborate why Matt was considered a deeply polarizing figure, please?
petesergeant•13h ago
He would have been happy to tell you himself that he had some rough edges, would speak his mind unvarnished, and would hold strongly onto his own opinions of what he thought was right.
ChrisMarshallNY•13h ago
That sounds like half this community. I suspect the issue is what those opinions were.

I did not know him at all, have no opinion on him, and sincerely wish the best for those he left behind.

petesergeant•5h ago
> the issue is what those opinions were

Rarely, in fact.

mjd•53m ago
In my life, I've only known one person who has called me a “cunt”.

I'm sure Matt would have been happy to admit that he was that person. I'm sure he would have said that he had spoken his mind unvarnished, and maybe even that he thought he was right.

So what?

People say that a community will fall to the level of the most toxic person it will tolerate. For the Perl community, that was Matt.

xdfgh1112•8h ago
He was pretty mean to people on irc. If you didn't immediately understand what he said he'd verbally barrage you. Then again the whole perl irc community was pretty toxic.
windowshopping•47m ago
Yeah, I tried learning Perl back in 2017 and the community was the worst I'd ever encountered. The language had so many bizarre quirks and they just treated you like an absolute idiot if you didn't intuitively get it. Left it behind and never looked back.
ether_at_cpan•5h ago
He "did not suffer fools gladly"
IncreasePosts•1h ago
Every time I've heard that phrase used it's just describing an asshole
daneel_w•58m ago
No reason to not say it plainly: he was regularly a total dickhead to people asking for help. But, also, he always gave people first-class expert help. They just had to "pay" by taking a bit of verbal abuse.

I spent over a decade in #perl on freenode/libera and saw so many abusive events that I eventually got tired of hanging out there, mostly due to him but in part also due to a handful of others displaying similar behavior. All the same I was always grateful for how tirelessly he spent so much of his personal time providing help, and I'm sad to learn of his passing.

ether_at_cpan•25m ago
Well yes, he was a total dickhead to people who asked lazy questions and could not answer the follow-up questions that they were asked. He was strict about teaching people that it is important to be able to explain one's problem clearly and follow debugging instructions, and was ruthless with people who didn't get that. On the "help" irc channels we saw a continuous flood of lazy people wanting quick solutions to their coding homework and after a while anyone would become sick of it.

I didn't much enjoy it when I was at the other end of it though, and sometimes he went too far. "Try to understand why the person doesn't understand" wasn't something he did enough -- sometimes the person doesn't know the right questions to ask, they just know that their thing doesn't work.

As a helper, it's hard to find the right balance, and I think the most important thing is that if you're getting emotional about it, step away and let someone else take the question. (I at least have been getting better at this over time.)

layer8•13h ago
https://trout.me.uk/
tunnuz•13h ago
Sad news :(
kubb•13h ago
42 :( it’s way too young - pisses me of when people spend days, months years of our time for their own benefit like it’s nothing
_rpf•12h ago
Super sad to see this. I worked with Matt around 2004.

Super smart kid, very nice to work with. I ended up supporting one of the systems he built (in Perl). I used his Cataylst Perl framework for some projects after that because of him.

martinclayton•12h ago
I use Catalyst quite a lot - have been working on a new thing this morning.

Thanks, Matt, the ripples will go on for a good while.

rurban•11h ago
You died way too young, my dear friend!
xena•11h ago
mst is the reason I know some Perl and also managed to get me a Perl group cloak on Liberachat. I will miss him dearly. I've added him to the list of X-Clacks-Overhead responses on my blog.
kodzoman•10h ago
I've met Matt on several occasions, and while he was a challenging character, he was also full of life and ideas, and an inspiration. He was a genius in an old-school, no-compromise way. I have been away from Perl for a long time, but some of my best memories and some of the most intelligent conversations took place while with MST and the rest of that amazing community. Fly high.
IncandescentGas•7h ago
RIP mst and thanks for all the fish. DBIx::Class and Catalyst are still a core part of how I pay the bills.
ether_at_cpan•5h ago
This is very sad news.

As I said on irc:

He brought many people into the community, and encouraged their growth (like me)

I popped into the scene by sending a few Moose patches and then coming onto irc displaying an utter lack of understanding of anything

Matt set me straight, and encouraged me to send more patches and I ended up as the manager for Moose

and then inherited the ownership of literally hundreds (perhaps thousands by now) distributions

that work helped me move from being mediocre at my job to being stellar, and enabled me to move on to much better jobs

the_precipice•4h ago
Here is a far more balanced view of the recently deceased. https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html
moltar•3h ago
Eh remember him from IRC days
ShamblingMound•1h ago
Had a handful of interactions with Matt. Probably the last was sometime in the mid- to late-2010s. I essentially started my software development career using software that he was largely responsible for (unknown to me at the time):

  * Catalyst (web framework)
  * DBIx::Class (ORM)
  * Moo (object-oriented code)
These are, in my opinion, some of the best packages in Perl, and there are rarely counterparts that are as good in other languages. Have not found an ORM that is as effortless and featureful as DBIx::Class, for example.

I've read about his tough interactions with other people, and it does seem that, at times, he fell into the classic trap of loving his own ideas too much; but in our interactions (reviewing some of my code on a Perl project), he was really helpful and kind. Also amazingly quick. He read my beginner-level Perl code, instantly understood it, and instantly gave clear, concise feedback.

It's a shame he has passed.

jasonjayr•1h ago
Last post, just 54 days ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mst

Huge in the Perl world, he will be missed.

daneel_w•1h ago
Thanks for all the invaluable teachings about Perl stuff.
Slortibort•53m ago
I used to know him quite well, though not much in a technical context.

He used to wind up taking home every single girl I introduced him to. He and I met when he pulled my FWB at a club and our friendship long outlasted either of ours with the FWB.

He gave me career advice that I followed that set me on a path to the great happiness I now have.

Shine on you crazy diamond.

masfuerte•29m ago
This comment [1] has a link to this obituary [2] of Matt. The comment is flagged, probably because the author's other comment is very mean spirited, but the linked obituary is excellent.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44523887

[2]: https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html

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Matt Trout has died

https://www.shadowcat.co.uk/2025/07/09/ripples-they-cause-in-the-world/
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