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A 1960s schools experiment that created a new alphabet

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jul/06/1960s-schools-experiment-created-new-alphabet-thousands-children-unable-to-spell
51•Hooke•1d ago

Comments

bbminner•6h ago
Hm, I'm not a native speaker, but I had no issues reading that weird script, is it supposed to be hard somehow for native speakers?
crazygringo•6h ago
Nope, it's a gimmick that's dumb. It's not as effortless to read as proper English, but it's still immediately obvious what the words are.
JKCalhoun•6h ago
The difficulty is apparently in the child learning it and then later transitioning to standard English.
vintermann•5h ago
As a radical spelling reform it may not have been so bad, as a pedagogical tool for graduating to "real" English it's not hard to see how it would have been a disaster.
clickety_clack•6h ago
I guess I wrote UK English until I came to the US a decade ago and spell check fixes a lot of those issues for me. I could imagine that’s something similar here where it seems the mother has no problem reading, but when writing she seems to confuse the weird spelling they taught her.
fsckboy•6h ago
it's not hard to read for native speakers, but you have to go slowly, where ordinary reading is very fast. reminds me of the experiment that shows you can read words with all the letters scrambled if the first and last letter are not part of the scramble https://www.sciencealert.com/word-jumble-meme-first-last-let... I assume that works in any language? but that "reads" fairly quickly whereas this one here for me at least is a little slower
parlortricks•3h ago
It feels like I was able to read the text at the same speed as normal English text.
sheiyei•3h ago
Yeah, and it's a matter of getting used to it for most. A bit like when text has an accent written out.
fn-mote•3h ago
> is it supposed to be hard somehow for native speakers?

For mature readers, it is a big contrast because it requires "sounding out" the words instead of being able to decode them in chunks / a whole word at a glance.

I would say it's more of a publicity stunt than anything. It looks kind of like Old English (maybe) and definitely isn't recognizable at a glance, but the fact that the letters make only one sound in this decoding system is a major advantage for beginners.

wongarsu•2h ago
A contrast only by familiarity. I imagine the difference would vanish very quickly.

As a system for writing English it seems superior to what we have now. Spelling telling you how to pronounce something is how most languages work. English by comparison has no consistent framework, requiring a lot of memorization to build that mapping. ITA is only a stunt in retrospect because it never went anywhere

foxglacier•2h ago
Not the lower-case-omega letter which is the oo in book, and the ou in you.
0manrho•2h ago
Native speaker here (American). I can read it, it's not necessarily difficult but it's much slower. I would not voluntarily read any book or long form text written in this script. This feels very much the same as those experiments where the words contain all the correct letters, and the first and last are in the right position, but the rest are in jumbled order. For example, "Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch" vs "According to a research" [0]. It's readable, but I hate it lol. EDIT: that said, I do recognize that it could be a useful tool for helping people that may not be native speakers or perhaps have some learning disability, or perhaps even a way to better encode text for text-to-speech uses or other accessibility purposes. I personally do not care for it, but I'm not against it.

0: https://www.sciencealert.com/word-jumble-meme-first-last-let...

JKCalhoun•6h ago
I confess, I miss some of the experimental teaching techniques they tried in the late 60's. Education was a surprisingly dynamic field it seems.

In the U.S. my mom moved my sister and I into a new public school for what would have been my 4th grade.

What an odd school it was compared to the previous public schools I had been to. For starters, I was not in 4th grade, I was in Community 5 (I assume that Kindergarten was Community 1, so they decided to toss the zero-based system I was used to.) I seem to recall they had combined 5th and 6th grade into something called Suite 67.

The school itself was circular in construction with a sunken library in the center of the circle — the wedge-shaped classes going radially around the library. (If it sounds like Moon Base from Space 1999, I suspect it's because everyone in the 70's were drinking the same Koolaid.)

Classes were "open". While there were enough students to form two or more classes per grade, er, community, our community did not have a single teacher but a few. So you might have one teacher and learn reading, writing, and then later in the day another teacher would step in for science, math.

I believe the two teachers swapped and would teach the other group in Community 5 — the other group getting Math and Science in the early part of the day, English after.

And it was described as "open" and I believe that to mean that the two Community 5 classes had no physical wall between them. I don't remember though And, yeah, I know, sounds like trying to watch one movie at a drive-in while another screen is showing something else. I believe though there was perhaps some theory involving osmosis or some-such.

I remember clearly, now almost fifty years later, at least two of the science experiments we did in Community 5. They involved experiments with a control group, collecting data (one involving the effects of sunlight on bean plant growth, the other on the temperature preferences of isopods). They had definitely nailed that curriculum.

It was also where I was introduced to the Metric System (that Reagan would shitcan some years later).

When, a few years back, I went back to Overland Park, Kansas to try and find the school I was sad to see that it had been torn down and a standard rectilinear building in its place. No memory from the front desk staff about its wild history.

So sad.

skavi•6h ago
Wow, was reading through this with a relatively detached interest and had to reread a few times to overcome the whiplash of you naming the city in which I attended elementary, middle, and high school.

If it’s any consolation, the modern Blue Valley school district is still considered excellent [0]. And there are still a few interesting ideas being pursued. The CAPS center [1] had some cool things going on when I graduated in 2018.

[0]: https://www.bluevalleyk12.org/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&M...

[1]: https://bvcaps.yourcapsnetwork.org/

JKCalhoun•6h ago
Ha ha, which schools? I can list Pawnee, Apache, Comanche, Somerset, Meadowbrook and Shawnee Mission East (although the latter ones were in Prairie Village, KS).

Yeah, we moved around the 'burbs a bit.

Also: another experimental "Free" school in the 1970's for one year was P.A.C.E.R.S. in KCMO, and then a partial year at a Catholic School in KCMO: Saint Francis Xavier, ha ha.

skavi•6h ago
Sunrise Point Elementary, Prairie Star Middle, and Blue Valley High. IIRC, SPE is a bit newer. But Blue Valley High has probably been there since the start of the district.

btw: just noticed you’re the person who wrote that color picker post. that was a fun read.

skavi•6h ago
Would you mind naming which school replaced the experimental school you described in your original post? Or the name of the experimental school itself?
WillAdams•5h ago
There was a similar round school in Farmville, Va. which afforded children within walking distance an education _and_ local college students an easy/convenient student teacher position, which sadly has apparently also been demolished.
readthenotes1•6h ago
Fixing the half-arssed effort Sam Johnson is famous for is long overdue. Although we owe him a debt, that unnecessary B in debt is completely ridiculous.

The lack of correlation between sound and letter is embarrassing.

I wish this would have taken off (Maybe even giving us a gender neutral pronoun?).

Sadly, we'll need a dictator like Sejong the Great to make it happen.

bigstrat2003•6h ago
> Maybe even giving us a gender neutral pronoun?

We have those. "He/him/his" are gender-neutral pronouns in English. People simply assume they are male-only, but that isn't true.

AstralStorm•1h ago
Ambiguous pronoun/declination is not the same as neutral. We have the same problem in Polish.

People will assume the male gender even if it's technically correct.

bigDinosaur•5h ago
Curious what's wrong with 'they'?
Waterluvian•4h ago
Yup. “They” has been accepted in major style guides and it’s what I use. It’s at times a bit limiting because there can be ambiguity for singular and plural but overall it’s pretty much a non-issue.
sheiyei•3h ago
Imagine having a language with no issues cobbling together significant portions of vocabulary from at least 8 different languages, and then ending up with the same pronoun for plural and singular, in both the 2nd and 3rd persons...
Ekaros•10m ago
Might as well go full way and adopt also we for both singular and plural.
com2kid•4h ago
Soundspel is my personal favorite proposal, it is easy for existing English readers to read, I suspect only a few hours would be needed to come to to full speed.

With most text being read on a screen now days, phones and computers could have a button to switch between spelling systems.

Sadly, it'll never happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundSpel

cornholio•3h ago
It's interesting ChatGPT can't produce anything close to SoundSpell no matter how I prompt it, it will invent its own system.

I'm sure it can be easily be trained to with enough samples just like it knows any other language, but for now it seems a good way to know you are reading a human generated text.

toast0•3h ago
> The lack of correlation between sound and letter is embarrassing.

Well, it's worse than that, because English speakers don't agree on how words sound.

So, if we started spelling things like they sound, words would get misspelled (or perhaps misspelt) a lot more than now. There's a lot of vowel shifts from place to place ... but not for all instances of those vowel sounds in all words. Some people like to add r's that aren't there, but there's a few places to do it.

You'd need a much tighter language community to enforce consistent enough pronunciation that a phonetic alphabet would work. And you'd be giving up centuries of printed works to do it.

Ekaros•7m ago
Been thinking about this and Finnish dialects can be misspelled mostly inside standard writing system. I see no reason why words should not have multiple spellings matching to different pronunciations. It is kinda a thing already when different local words are used. So why not go entire way. Write how it is pronounced even if someone uses different pronounciation.
lehi•6h ago
I kept expecting this article about the ITA (Initial Teaching Alphabet, a Latin-based script with new glyphs for spelling words phonetically, now unused) to mention the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet, a Latin-based script with new glyphs for spelling words phonetically, still widely used), but apparently there is no relation?
marc_abonce•4h ago
The article doesn't explicitly mention the IPA but the illustration with the character set compares each character with its IPA equivalent.

Same chart, from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_Teaching_Alphabet#/med...

mousethatroared•6h ago
I learned to read in foreigner and soon after moved to an English country at age 6.

I was an atrocious speller until I moved back to foreign-land and had to take English class with my schoolmates.

Learning how people mispronounce English phonetically fixed most of my spelling.

leke•5h ago
I'm English and an atrocious speller until I started learning Finnish and learned to pronounce the English words phonetically in my head using the Finnish phonetic system.
sheiyei•3h ago
That's awesome, I'm Finnish but when at school in England I was very quickly one of the best spellers in my class.
xeonmc•6h ago
So this is essentially the equivalent of teaching only hiragana for years and then immediately throw you into the deep end expecting you to suddenly know all the kanjis already, without any transition of gradually accumulating the mapping of morphemes to phonemes.

It seems to me that this ITA would have been quite useful had it served an annotative role taught in tandem with canonical spellings to build the morpheme-to-phoneme mapping. Akin to kana rubytext for kanji in books targeted for younger learners that are then elided for adult readers.

WillAdams•5h ago
There was another version of this where rather than a new alphabet, only the lower half of the letters were changed --- since text is easily read by only having access to the upper half of the letters, that made for a much easier transition.
eviks•5h ago
> The issue isn’t simply whether or not ITA worked – the problem is that no one really knows. For all its scale and ambition, the experiment was never followed by a national longitudinal study.

Indeed, another tale of pure waste. How many of the opposite experiments are there? Is there at least 1 perfectly set up non-trivial experiment that added definitive knowledge in this sphere?

noduerme•5h ago
Imagine how kids now will feel when they find out that prompting Claude isn't actually coding.
n1b0m•3h ago
I did this at primary skool, not an issue, my spelling is orsum
senorqa•3h ago
ITA looks like the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) to me. I like that. If all English text was written in this way it'd be really easy to learn (at least for me). It reads like a breeze.
tigroferoce•35m ago
I agree. As an Italian (where you read exactly what you say and you say exactly what you read) it was straightforward to read. I have always wondered why English has so many weird pronunciation exceptions.
Perenti•3h ago
I encountered this in 1968. This was at Clarinda State School, in grade 1. The 1A class used ITA, and 1B used proper latin alphabet. My best friend, Steve Irwin (yes, _that_ Steve Irwin. Everyone had to go to school somewhere) was in 1A. Every afternoon after school he'd come to my place and we'd go through our readers for the day. I'd read the English one to him, and he'd memorise it to recite (pretending to read) to his teacher the next day. I assume he was taught properly when he moved to Queensland in 1969.

I can't imagine how hard it was for people less bright than Steve. No wonder the scheme trained illiterates.

sandworm101•22m ago
Bright, but it sounds like he was also overcompensating. Many celebs, leaders in thier respective fields, get there by being massive good at something. Often they get that good as mental cover for some other self-percieved failure. The drive required to be the absolute best is itself rather unnatural, requiring some sort of trigger. Being a totally friendly extrovert seems a logical cover for poor reading ability.
InsideOutSanta•2h ago
Wild. I can read this, no problem, and I can see that it is a clear improvement over standard letters and spelling. Latin letters are (quite literally) a poor match for the English language. They don't match the sounds required to speak English.

I'm not sure if this is a valuable teaching tool, but I think it would be conceptually sound as a general replacement for Latin letters for English text. At this point, though, it's impossible to make such a drastic change. It would have global repercussions.

totetsu•2h ago
θaŋks fə ʃɛəɹɪŋ ðɪs. ɪts æktʃuəli səˈpɹaɪzɪŋli iːzi tə ɹiːd ðɪs. bət ɪt maɪt biː bɪˈkəz aɪ æm fəˈmɪljə wɪð ði aɪ.piː.eɪ. ɔːlsəʊ ɛlɛlɛmz siːm tə duː ə diːsənt ʤɒb æt aʊtpʊtɪŋ tuː, səʊ ðæt teɪks əˈweɪ ðə dɪfɪkəlti ɪn lɜːnɪŋ tə taɪp əˈɡɛn.
singularity2001•1h ago
aɪ ˈɹɪəli lʌv ðæt əˈpɹoʊt͡ʃ ðɛɹ ɪz ˈivən ə ˈkʌstəm ˌd͡ʒiːpiːˈtiː ðæt dʌz ðə d͡ʒɑb fɔɹ ju

ənˈfɔɹtʃənətli ˈnən əv ðə ˈwənz aɪ ˈtɹaɪd ɡɪv jə ˌʌnkənˈdɪʃənəli ɪˈmidiət ˌaɪpiˈeɪ wɪˈðaʊt ɪnˈstɹʌkʃən ænd ˈnən əv ðəm ˈænsɚ ˈkwɛs.tʃənz ɪn ˌaɪpiˈeɪ bəɾ aɪ kən ˈfɪks ðɪs baɪ ˈsɪmpli kɹiˈeɪtɪŋ maɪ ˈoʊn ˌdʒiːpiˈti ðæt ˈdəz ɪɡˈzæktli ðæt

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ipafy/

https://chatgpt.com/g/g-6878bd78e06c8191bcdf6de7a57eac52-ipa...

PS: it might take some time to learn the difference between IPA and API but it will be worth it finally we created the spelling reform we've always dreamt about

kleiba•24m ago
I briefly worked as a teacher for comp sci, math, and physics at a local high school. Luckily, I hardly ever had to interact with people higher up in the education hierarchy (DOE) but everytime I did, there was this attitude of "you know nothing about how to teach, we know everything". Like, you have to use tablets in math class these days, what am I thinking suggesting that pen and paper is appropriate??

The more I think about it, I can't help but think that pedagogy is borderline quackery. If you read articles like this (and that's certainly not the only one), you realize pretty quickly that there is little scientific basis and a lot of it is just plain guess work. And it all comes with this air of self-confidence that is really not grounded in reality.

And don't get me wrong: I'm not against proposing a learning theory and then verifying or falsifying it empirically. But that's not really what's happening when you force some wild out-there method on a whole generation of students, only to find out years later that, oh, maybe that was all baloney. I mean, besides my foray into teaching I actually worked in academia for most of my career, and everytime you apply for funding for anything that's remotely related to user experiments, you must get ethics clearing, and that's not a joke. I'm amazed that new bogey teaching methods are so easily introduced and made mandatory in our school system with apparently no ethical considerations.

akdor1154•18m ago
I wonder if it is included in Unicode? Could the people here claim their native alphabet, taught to them in standard institutions from a western country, is not represented in Unicode?
junon•5m ago
> And many letter combinations contradict one another across different words: think of “through”, “though” and “thought”.

I live in Germany now but I'm American. The poem "dearest creature in creation" is always a fun party trick. German is difficult but it's a good reminder that English is, too.

If you're a non-native English speaker and you can get this poem even 50% correct you're doing really well. Most Americans (and, I'd imagine, other English native speakers) would also struggle with it.

https://www.learnenglish.de/pronunciation/pronunciationpoem....

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A 1960s schools experiment that created a new alphabet

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jul/06/1960s-schools-experiment-created-new-alphabet-thousands-children-unable-to-spell
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