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Checking Out CPython 3.14's remote debugging protocol

https://rtpg.co/2025/06/28/checking-out-sys-remote-exec/
72•ingve•12h ago

Comments

BossingAround•7h ago
So, IIUIC, new capabilities:

- It'll be possible to print stack traces without modifying or stopping the program.

- It'll be possible to exec into a program at runtime without modifying it.

I'm not sure why the author mentions remote_pdb - this has been with Python for some time, and works since Py 2.7? Not sure what changes in 3.14 for remote_pdb.

What I'm hoping though is improved tooling around debugging Python. Currently, in my experience, VSCode (more specifically, debugpy) provides pretty much unmatched remote debugging capabilities, and I'm really hoping we can have a standardized way to connect any IDE to remote Python processes with the same UX as VSCode.

I would love to use something like Zed, but without remote debugging abilities, the IDE is pretty useless for me. Perhaps better devs don't need remote debugging, but I depend on it more than a junior in college CS program depends on AI :)

jasonjmcghee•7h ago
I thought the author mentioned remote pdb because it sounds like you can use it to attach to cpython now, and previously gdb would have been needed? I'm at last a few years behind on debugging cpython... But always used gdb.
maeln•7h ago
If I understand correctly, this would be very useful to debug application running on GUnicorn, Celery, etc. Apps that usually have several workers / processes / threads. Currently, it is very annoying to use pdb for that. The Debug Adapter Protocol works well for this case, but the only fully feature, and not buggy, client right now is VSCode (last I checked, the nvim implementation was still a bit buggy. Didn't try the Emacs one).

I really like debugging in a simple shell (à la gdb) so this would really be nice for my workflow.

BossingAround•7h ago
When debugging multi-threaded env with debugpy & VSCode, VSCode jumps to code that is active in currently active thread. Is DAP something different? From briefly looking at the docs, it seems like DAP calls debugpy for Python debugging, so we're probably talking about the same experience?
maeln•7h ago
yes debugpy is the implementation of dap for python
frou_dh•7h ago
Seems pretty nice. I was getting worried when it was talking about requiring a third-party library (remote_pdb), but at least it sounds like you can now attach pdb to any running process on the same box using OOTB tooling only.
poulpy123•7h ago
I don't know if it's possible byt I would love to have a debugger that allows to go back in time from a breakpoint or an exception
dripton•6h ago
Yes, the term you're looking for is "reverse debugging". It exists, and it's better.
jasonjmcghee•6h ago
The popular (Linux only) solution is https://rr-project.org/
jasonjmcghee•7h ago
I found this to be a very good official resource on the topic https://peps.python.org/pep-0768/
whinvik•4h ago
Just to clarify, this requires both the client and the debugging script to be running 3.14? So I cannot have a script running an older version of Python but use a Python 3.14 debug script to attach to the running script?
joshlk•3h ago
Yes
skeledrew•3h ago
Wow, this pops up only a few days after I discover the existence of pyrasite[0]. I even created a wrapper around it to get a decent REPL (using ptpython[1]) and am planning to extend it over time into a kind of Pharo/Smalltalk live coding experience.

[0] https://pyrasite.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ [1] https://github.com/prompt-toolkit/ptpython

sczi•1h ago
Interesting, I hadn't heard of pyrasite, it has a nice GUI with info about objects' memory usage, threads, open files and more. I'll definitely take ideas from it.

I'm working on a live coding environment for python[0], based on emacs' SLIME mode for common lisp. It's quite new and I haven't written documentation yet, but all the main SLIME features not covered by LSP are working.

- All results printed in the repl are presentations that can be inspected, copied around and used again -- as the actual object, not just it's str or repr text like in most repls.

- On any uncaught exception you get an interactive backtrace buffer where you can jump to source, see arguments and local variables for each frame, and eval code or open a repl in the context of any stack frame. And the arguments and local variables aren't just text but presentations you can open in the object inspector, copy to the repl and use, etc.

- A thread viewer where you can view stats on all threads, get the backtrace of any thread, spawn a repl in the context of any of it's stack frames, etc.

- An async task viewer with somewhat more limited functionality as async tasks don't keep a full stack.

- A pretty documentation browser using mmontone's slime-doc-contribs.

- The ability to trace functions, where again their arguments and return values aren't just printed as text, but as presentations, that you can open in the inspector, copy to the repl, etc.

- I took some code from IPython's autoreload extension, so interactive development without restarting and losing state mostly works.

If you want to collaborate or just talk ideas that'd be fantastic, I don't have any experience with the Pharo/Smalltalk world.

https://codeberg.org/sczi/swanky-python/

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